8
   

China Has an Invalid Government

 
 
hawkeye10
 
  2  
Reply Sun 12 Oct, 2014 01:41 am
@OmSigDAVID,
Quote:
Whence springs its legitimacy, as defined by Hawkeye??
lack of objection from the submissives strong enough to undo the bosses.
OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Reply Sun 12 Oct, 2014 01:59 am
@hawkeye10,
DAVID wrote:
Whence springs its legitimacy, as defined by Hawkeye??
hawkeye10 wrote:
lack of objection from the submissives strong enough to undo the bosses.
BULLoney!
If the schoolyard bully knocks u around
that 's OK until u knock him on his ass or hire some guys to vanish him ?

I don t think it is.
0 Replies
 
Brandon9000
 
  1  
Reply Sun 12 Oct, 2014 08:14 am
@Walter Hinteler,
Walter Hinteler wrote:

Brandon9000 wrote:
My point was a contrast between two truths. (1) Americans have the legal right to peacefully assemble to petition for redress of grievances and (2) people under the Chinese government don't.
And such makes a government "invalid"?


This was discussed over and over and over at the start of the thread. Read that.
0 Replies
 
Brandon9000
 
  1  
Reply Sun 12 Oct, 2014 08:16 am
@OmSigDAVID,
OmSigDAVID wrote:


Brandon9000 wrote:
My point was a contrast between two truths. (1) Americans have the legal right to peacefully assemble to petition for redress of grievances and (2) people under the Chinese government don't.
Walter Hinteler wrote:
And such makes a government "invalid"?
Yes; illegitimate,
as if the Hell's Angels Motorcycle Club starts shoving u around.

The point is that it has no authority to do so. See ?

David

I wasn't going to go over this again as it was so thoroughly discussed at the beginning of the thread, but you really hit the nail on the head. That is it exactly. It's an unelected government. Just because some group of thugs has taken over, hardly makes it a valid government.
Brandon9000
 
  1  
Reply Sun 12 Oct, 2014 08:19 am
@izzythepush,
izzythepush wrote:
You pretend it didn't happen. Looking at the world with rose tinted spectacles is so much easier than dealing with reality.

No, what I'm "pretending" is that there is a difference between a country in which there is no right to assembly or speech, but once in awhile the government doesn't succeed in dispersing the crowd because too many people are looking and a government in which the right to assembly and speech are guaranteed, but once in awhile some local police break the law.
izzythepush
 
  4  
Reply Sun 12 Oct, 2014 08:24 am
@Brandon9000,
It's a bit more than once in a while. They targeted a film crew. That did not happen in China, it's the sort of thing that happens in the worst sort of dictatorship. You seem to be of the impression that it's alright for police to fire on protesters as long as they're not white middle class Republicans like yourself.
Walter Hinteler
 
  3  
Reply Sun 12 Oct, 2014 09:08 am
@Brandon9000,
Brandon9000 wrote:
It's an unelected government. Just because some group of thugs has taken over, hardly makes it a valid government.
That system is generally called hierarchical electoral system, used in the USA for the Senate until 1913.
bobsal u1553115
 
  1  
Reply Sun 12 Oct, 2014 09:29 am
@hawkeye10,
Gotta agree. If the Chinese were so unhappy with their government would fall without much struggle, like the USSR did.
0 Replies
 
bobsal u1553115
 
  1  
Reply Sun 12 Oct, 2014 09:30 am
@Brandon9000,
No, you haven't run out specious ones.
bobsal u1553115
 
  1  
Reply Sun 12 Oct, 2014 09:32 am
@OmSigDAVID,
Don't tell him, Walter, or we'll be seeing huge arrows in all of his posts!
0 Replies
 
bobsal u1553115
 
  1  
Reply Sun 12 Oct, 2014 09:33 am
@hawkeye10,
Simple and accurate standard, I agree.
0 Replies
 
Brandon9000
 
  0  
Reply Sun 12 Oct, 2014 11:39 am
@izzythepush,
izzythepush wrote:
It's a bit more than once in a while. They targeted a film crew. That did not happen in China, it's the sort of thing that happens in the worst sort of dictatorship.

Thousands and thousands and thousands of peaceful demonstrations have taken place in America in which the police didn't violate the law or hurt anyone who was not being violent. It's guaranteed in the Constitution and it's usually the way peaceful demonstrations go down. No such thing is true in China in which people don't have this right even in theory.

izzythepush wrote:
You seem to be of the impression that it's alright for police to fire on protesters as long as they're not white middle class Republicans like yourself.

If you put words in my mouth, you can win all the arguments. I insist that you link me to a post of mine in which I said it's alright to fire on protesters if they're not white, middle class Republicans. If you don't provide such a link, I will ask you again and again until you either provide it or it becomes clear that you're making stuff up.
Brandon9000
 
  0  
Reply Sun 12 Oct, 2014 11:40 am
@bobsal u1553115,
bobsal u1553115 wrote:

No, you haven't run out specious ones.

Please give an argument to demonstrate that any of them is specious.
Brandon9000
 
  0  
Reply Sun 12 Oct, 2014 11:56 am
@Walter Hinteler,
Walter Hinteler wrote:

Brandon9000 wrote:
It's an unelected government. Just because some group of thugs has taken over, hardly makes it a valid government.
That system is generally called hierarchical electoral system, used in the USA for the Senate until 1913.

What an absolute crock. It is certainly not true that all citizens vote for the congress in China. Even before 1913, the members of the House of representatives and the president were elected in the US (don't bore me about the electoral college). Now, members of both houses of congress and the president are chosen in elections in which all citizens can vote. In China, by contrast, no national leaders are elected by all citizens. Furthermore, China brutally suppresses dissent as their standard position.
Walter Hinteler
 
  2  
Reply Sun 12 Oct, 2014 12:20 pm
@Brandon9000,
Brandon9000 wrote:

Walter Hinteler wrote:

Brandon9000 wrote:
It's an unelected government. Just because some group of thugs has taken over, hardly makes it a valid government.
That system is generally called hierarchical electoral system, used in the USA for the Senate until 1913.

What an absolute crock. It is certainly not true that all citizens vote for the congress in China. Even before 1913, the members of the House of representatives and the president were elected in the US (don't bore me about the electoral college).
Would you please read what I wrote before saying it is a crock, Brandon?
I didn't write that all citizens vote for the congress in China but that the system there is called hierarchical electoral system.

I didn't write anything about how the members of the House of representatives and the president were elected in the US, too.
Until 1913, the US Senate was elected according to the hierachical electoral system. That was chanced with the Seventeenth Amendment.
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  3  
Reply Sun 12 Oct, 2014 12:22 pm
@Brandon9000,
How you responded to Walter's post is specious.
0 Replies
 
izzythepush
 
  4  
Reply Sun 12 Oct, 2014 01:03 pm
@Brandon9000,
I've not noticed you express any outrage that such attacks on, predominantly black, protesters happened. You've just said a load of platitudes about peaceful protest being protected. I'm sure those assaulted by the police will take great comfort from those words?

What are you trying to prove, that if you've got a problem with your government then America's a better place to be than China? Well shouldn't it be? Why are you comparing your government to a dictatorship? Why not compare it to a democracy?
cicerone imposter
 
  2  
Reply Sun 12 Oct, 2014 01:05 pm
@izzythepush,
Good observation.
izzythepush
 
  3  
Reply Sun 12 Oct, 2014 01:23 pm
@cicerone imposter,
The thing is, when the Chinese government meets with the West to discuss human rights, they don't talk about what's enshrined in the constitution. They talk about how democracies deal with protests. They are using the same tactics that were deployed against the Occupy movement. What's sauce for the goose.
0 Replies
 
bobsal u1553115
 
  1  
Reply Sun 12 Oct, 2014 01:45 pm
@Brandon9000,
China's government has been recognized by every other government on the planet. Any argument that China has an invalid government is specious.
 

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