VA Scandal

@edgarblythe,

edgarblythe wrote:

So, we can ignore the scandal as a tempest in a teapot and it will go away.

NO...I do not think we should ignore it.

But we should not go off half-cocked...and assume the VA is as incompetent as some people now suppose it is.

Like I said (and Bobsal)...my life was saved by the VA. The hospitals were no less competent, in my opinion, than other non-VA hospitals that I have visited. The doctors and staff were no less competent than the doctors and staff in non-VA facilities.

I think the entire of the medical community in the US could use some careful investigation...and changes that seem to be need should be made.

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@Frank Apisa,

Quote:

and assume the VA is as incompetent as some people now suppose it is.

wrong term, this is immorality, this is lying up the chain of command. It is impossible to run a government where this is allowed to happen with out severe consequences.

Another thing: these agencies have I believe IG systems which are supposed to detect and run up the chain of command frauds such as this....what happened? Is this yet another way our government is failing us...another basic government system which is not working?

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@Frank Apisa,

My father in law was not as lucky as you. There is a systemic problem here that needs to be examined, almost is if they were establishing the hospitals for the first time.

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@hawkeye10,

hawkeye10 wrote:

Quote:
and assume the VA is as incompetent as some people now suppose it is.

wrong term, this is immorality, this is lying up the chain of command. It is impossible to run a government where this is allowed to happen with out severe consequences.

Another thing: these agencies have I believe IG systems which are supposed to detect and run up the chain of command frauds such as this....what happened? Is this yet another way our government is failing us...another basic government system which is not working?

My guess is there is not a hospital or corporation in America that has not lied to protect itself and its profits.

Yeah...there probably was some lying. But the free world has become a hotbed of "government is the problem not the solution"...and governmental agencies are going to lie also.

I ask you this, Hawk. Has the treatment you have been given by the VA been appreciably worse than the treatment you have been given by healthcare providers outside the VA?

1 Reply

@edgarblythe,

edgarblythe wrote:

My father in law was not as lucky as you.

Meaning what, Edgar? That the VA allowed your father-in-law to die...or gave such poor treatment that he died as a result of their inefficiencies and inadequacies? Are you saying that he would have fared better if he had gone to the local for-profit hospital?

What do you mean by that?

Quote:

There is a systemic problem here that needs to be examined, almost is if they were establishing the hospitals for the first time.

Whenever I have written on this, I have advocated for discontinuing the VA hospitals...and GIVING all returning vets free medical coverage...like Medicare or Medicaid. Let that be one of the benefits of serving in the military.

But I still think the "systemic problem" is with this nation's entire health care system...not just the VA. All of the hospitals near where I live are for-profit hospitals...and referrals (often unnecessary) are running rampant. They are at least as interested in making profits...as in providing proper health care...and probably more interested in making profits.

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@Frank Apisa,

Quote:

I ask you this, Hawk. Has the treatment you have been given by the VA been appreciably worse than the treatment you have been given by healthcare providers outside the VA?

I get my care on the active military side, the wife goes to the VA and is generally happy. She did work for the VA for a bit and hated it, in fact she took the job of a person who was fired and put on criminal charges for $400,000 of fraud.

Quote:

My guess is there is not a hospital or corporation in America that has not lied to protect itself and its profits.

I expect government to be like the military, where lies are not accepted, because lies cost lives.

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I once spent three weeks in a VA hospital, and have made some use of them since. My impression is that everyone involved directly in patient care is very good. Administrative/clerical personnel are about hopeless. I don't at all doubt the exceptions mentioned here and elsewhere, but those are my overall impressions.

ETA: All the hopeless clerks and so forth that I've come in contact with all call me "Buddy". Some kind of pseudo respect, an attempt at bonding, or plain irony - I've no idea.

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@Frank Apisa,

I described his treatment in an earlier post.

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@edgarblythe,

edgarblythe wrote:

I described his treatment in an earlier post.

My treatment in the VA was fine. Not perfect, but I have become use to a non-perfect world. My treatment in non-VA hospitals has been fine. Not perfect.

In any case...beating up on government and government run facilities has become a cottage industry in the US.

Maybe sometime soon we will be rid of government...and have whatever takes over when government is eliminated.

Things should be a lot better then.

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@Frank Apisa,

In short, because you were treated well, it is none of your affair what happens to the rest of us.

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@edgarblythe,

edgarblythe wrote:

In short, because you were treated well, it is none of your affair what happens to the rest of us.

No...AS I SAID EARLIER.

But just heaping on the VA...when many of the problems are just as evident in non-VA hospitals is a bit much.

And since the VA saved my life...I want to go to bat for it.

Do you have a problem with that?

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@Frank Apisa,

How is it heaping on when they tried to refuse treatment to a relative of mine, until they realized a cop was paying attention, and later made him walk a treadmill, after his lungs had both collapsed more than once, then take away his oxygen?

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@edgarblythe,

edgarblythe wrote:

How is it heaping on when they tried to refuse treatment to a relative of mine, until they realized a cop was paying attention, and later made him walk a treadmill, after his lungs had both collapsed more than once, then take away his oxygen?

Yeah...they are such evil people there at the VA. Part of all the evil government we have. They are all incompetent...and if only they would listen to people like you...all would be better.

Texas is having an interesting effect on you, Edgar.

You deserve what you are helping to achieve.

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@Frank Apisa,

Just as I thought. You can't see beyond the end of your nose.

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@edgarblythe,

edgarblythe wrote:

Just as I thought. You can't see beyond the end of your nose.

Well...it is a pretty big nose.

The VA is not appreciably worse than any of the other medical facilities in the US...and in some cases, it is probably better.

But you seem to get so much pleasure from dumping on it...go for it.

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I'll just wait for others to post their thoughts.

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@edgarblythe,

edgarblythe wrote:

I'll just wait for others to post their thoughts.

Sounds like a plan!

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@roger,

I wonder if people confront them with that.

Reminds me of The Virginian (the book) - When you call me that, smile.

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@Frank Apisa,

You are way out of line, Apisa.

"Yeah...they are such evil people there at the VA. Part of all the evil government we have. They are all incompetent...and if only they would listen to people like you...all would be better."

EdgarB witnessed incompetence and you tear him down.

Yes, there is incompetence in all hospitals, some more than others, but even in the best. There is also exhaustion, and so on, people learning, but some workers aren't good at it, and I include surgeons and administrators in this. I know some of the better hospitals, smaller and larger, but horribleness happens, sometimes for fault.

Being an odd teen, I read about medicine since I was thirteen or fourteen, now long ago, lots of old med history and current (then) med accounts, in books, back then.

I'm a fan of Atul Gawande, a guy whose writing tries to address a lot of the greater ills.

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I was having lunch with a social worker friend of mind today, and brought this news story up.

She said she's heard of multiple VA scams (her words) like this.

Apparantly a VA location is supposed to schedule an appt withing X amount of days. If they go beyond this they get of the **** list.
She's heard that supervisor tell schedulers to make the appointments, then somehow lose the appt on the computer.

They count on that many people will just be passive, and reschedule. Others, like her and me would stand there with our appointment card and tell them we don't care what the computer says, we have proof of an appointment in our hand, and won't leave until we are seen.

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