"If God doesn't exist, everything is permitted."?

@neologist,

How do you get that? Man has devised cures for smallpox. polio and tuberculosis. Man had developed effective regimes for treating typhus, typhoid fever and cholera. The invention of the automobile and its rapid proliferation dramatically reduced infant and childhood mortality and contributed to the reduction of tuberculosis. I'd say man's score is much higher than zero.

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@Setanta,

*applause*

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@Setanta,

You have a valid point in the positive. I should have more specifically made reference to man's negatives such as pollution, mutually assured destruction, and such things.

Battery out. Bye

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Is it merely because of religion that man isn't run amok? Cmon.
The most severe and cruel "civilizations" were religious based. The same idiots here that are arguing in favor of religion are , on other threads condemning everyone else's religious beliefs except their own. Most of the "do right" Christians seem to have garnered most of the hate for Muslims. What am I missing here?

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@farmerman,

farmerman wrote:

Is it merely because of religion that man isn't run amok? Cmon.
The most severe and cruel "civilizations" were religious based. The same idiots here that are arguing in favor of religion are , on other threads condemning everyone else's religious beliefs except their own. Most of the "do right" Christians seem to have garnered most of the hate for Muslims. What am I missing here?

Nothing.

The priesthood is the single largest cause of man's inhumanity to man. Sure, the politicians and commercial interests have fed the monster; but whenever there is need for military force, it is the clergy that provides the cannon fodder.

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@neologist,

But you just can't wait for the bloodletting that, you believe, will be perpetrated on your behalf because of your faith.

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@alphajoza,

alphajoza wrote:

Dostoevsky once said: "If God doesn't exist, everything is permitted."

My question is how did he reach to this conclusion? I mean this statement is NOT about whether we get our moral values from bible or other holy books(because even if someone hasn't read those books, he can still know that for example rape is immoral) and the other thing is that I think this statement is also NOT about whether those who don't believe in god can't be moral persons or can't do good deeds(because they simply can!)

long story short, I think this statement is referring to the foundation of morality; but as I said I can't understand how Dostoevsky reach to such a conclusion;

can someone elaborate please;

thanks in advance.

Actually, Dostoevsky didn't "say" that. A character he created, Mitya, was made to state something similar to that, although the translation is often misleading, when not outright wrong.

Mitya's concern was about the "afterlife", "God" being a cipher for the extra-"mundane" treatment to be expected by individuals.

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@InfraBlue,

InfraBlue wrote:

But you just can't wait for the bloodletting that, you believe, will be perpetrated on your behalf because of your faith.

I would not be like God then, for ". . . he does not desire anyone to be destroyed . . . " (2 Peter 3:9)

Methinks you project thoughts not mine.

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@neologist,

neologist wrote:

InfraBlue wrote:
But you just can't wait for the bloodletting that, you believe, will be perpetrated on your behalf because of your faith.
I would not be like God then, for ". . . he does not desire anyone to be destroyed . . . " (2 Peter 3:9)

Methinks you project thoughts not mine.

No, I'm quoting you when I asked you about your bloodlust in regard to your religious and political enemies, and your likening, "when the time comes for Jehovah to settle accounts, he will not subdue his enemies in a pillow fight" with strangling your enemies with one anothers entrails.

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@InfraBlue,

InfraBlue wrote:

But you just can't wait for the bloodletting that, you believe, will be perpetrated on your behalf because of your faith.

neologist wrote:

I would not be like God then, for ". . . he does not desire anyone to be destroyed . . . " (2 Peter 3:9)

Methinks you project thoughts not mine.

neologist wrote:

No, I'm quoting you when I asked you about your bloodlust in regard to your religious and political enemies, and your likening, "when the time comes for Jehovah to settle accounts, he will not subdue his enemies in a pillow fight" with strangling your enemies with one anothers entrails.

You shouldn't confuse my quotation of a line in one of Diderot's plays as an indication of my wishes.

However, a reading of Revelation, chapters 17 and 18 does seem to predict a similar outcome; but with a warning to escape while one can.

Quote:

(Revelation 18:4) . . .Get out of her, my people, if YOU do not want to share with her in her sins, and if YOU do not want to receive part of her plagues.

I favor seeing as many as possible to escape.

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@neologist,

neologist wrote:

InfraBlue wrote:
But you just can't wait for the bloodletting that, you believe, will be perpetrated on your behalf because of your faith.
neologist wrote:
I would not be like God then, for ". . . he does not desire anyone to be destroyed . . . " (2 Peter 3:9)

Methinks you project thoughts not mine.
neologist wrote:

No, I'm quoting you when I asked you about your bloodlust in regard to your religious and political enemies, and your likening, "when the time comes for Jehovah to settle accounts, he will not subdue his enemies in a pillow fight" with strangling your enemies with one anothers entrails.
You shouldn't confuse my quotation of a line in one of Diderot's plays as an indication of my wishes.
However, a reading of Revelation, chapters 17 and 18 does seem to predict a similar outcome; but with a warning to escape while one can.
Quote:
(Revelation 18:4) . . .Get out of her, my people, if YOU do not want to share with her in her sins, and if YOU do not want to receive part of her plagues.
I favor seeing as many as possible to escape.

Do you favor seeing this similar outcome for those who it is not possible to escape?

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@InfraBlue,

InfraBlue wrote:

Do you favor seeing this similar outcome for those who it is not possible to escape?

Escape is completely voluntary

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@neologist,

neologist wrote:

Chumly wrote:
Chumly once said: "If God does exist, everything is permitted as long as you interpret your religion of choice to suit."

Can someone elaborate please? Thanks in advance.
Good to see you back, Chumly. Of course, your conclusion is correct without the phrase "If God does exist". Everything is permitted as long as you interpret your religion of choice to suit. However, our choice is irrelevant.

Your claim would have merit if it was based on demonstrable observation; not that I expect you to dislodge your superstitions, however it's sobering to note how ingrained your suppositories are.

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@Chumly,

Chumly wrote:

neologist wrote:

Chumly wrote:
Chumly once said: "If God does exist, everything is permitted as long as you interpret your religion of choice to suit."

Can someone elaborate please? Thanks in advance.
Good to see you back, Chumly. Of course, your conclusion is correct without the phrase "If God does exist". Everything is permitted as long as you interpret your religion of choice to suit. However, our choice is irrelevant.
Your claim would have merit if it was based on demonstrable observation; not that I expect you to dislodge your superstitions, however it's sobering to note how ingrained your suppositories are.

Rofl. Suppositories... XD

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My doctor gave me some suppositories once't . . . i took one every day just as prescibed. They did me not good at all. For all the good then did me, i might as well have shoved them up my @ss.

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@Setanta,

So, did everything come out all right?

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@Setanta,

What a jerk! Didn't you know you were supposed to chew them?

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@Chumly,

What claim?
My claim that our choice is irrelevant?
I believe Neil deGrasse Tyson made a similar claim.

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@alphajoza,

All I know as that there are invisible rules that life follow by.
I like to combine science and faith altogether. Basic rules that life lives by. Example:

Chemistry and the way atoms work with one another to make a "creation".
We humans have carbon atoms in our DNA.

My perspective on religion and non-religion is that there are so many kinds of religions that they are like different languages in the world. They have something in common with each other like "faith" "believing".

Religion is like culture, spirituality is like who we are as individuals.

Different languages, different rules, same idea to faith and how things "happen".

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Quote:

Darthtig said: My perspective on religion and non-religion is that there are so many kinds of religions that they are like different languages in the world.

But only Christianity has the Son of God himself in it, so all the rest don't count.. Wink

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"If God doesn't exist, everything is permitted."?

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