Age Discrimination???

My own story is that I went very high as a lab tech but was, approaching forty, interested in other matters. I cut off my nose to change, and spent another four years for education in another field. I was both happier and poorer after that.
Still not sorry. All in all, I had years getting my science b.a., an internship and about fifteen years in immunology clinical and research work, art classes at night for many of those years; four years of classes in landscape architecture, while also working, and two years of internship before national boards, and many more years in land arch practice. I was married most of that time, enthusiastically keeping house and having guests. Many times of little sleep. We didn't have children, though some family child care. I don't regret any of it, but changes happen.

Meantime, I am strongly hoping your wife is hired. But life has twists that can be good in the long run.

Sorry for the delay. We were on vacation. The thing is that she worked very, very hard for four years, succeeded, and the result is unfair. I don't like to see her being ignored and ignored despite her amazing scholastic record. She also has great references, but no one has seen them since no one has let her have an interview. We could review her resume, but the people who are preoccupied with that theory of this phenomenon have ignored the fact that virtually all of the graduates under 20 were hired very quickly and virtually none of the graduates over 40 have been, despite the fact that their grades were generally higher. Do almost all of the graduates over 40 all have bad resumes and almost all of the graduates over 20 have good ones?

I read the first too pages of this thread only. My first impression is that she is being rejected because it is believed that she would be a poor social fit. Being too old is part of it, but the grades being to good is also a red flag as it indicates her as obsessive and bookish. I have a feeling that the job she wants to do is not really that hard, that those who did poorly in school can be train on the job rapidly, and so the young piece of ass will get the job over the old piece of ass every time because the young one is assumed to be more fun to work with. Dont overlook her being foreign either if her name does not sound American, for the same reason.

Her first name sounds foreign. I find it hard to believe, though, that everyone with great grades is ignored by all prospective employers. That isn't very plausible. Also, you, like the others, are failing to address (much) the issue that her treatment is about the same as that of her over 40 fellow graduates, not all of whom have 4.0s.

A few months back I was reading about a work organization scheme that is taking hold where once management screens out unqualified candidates the teams gather and vote on who gets hired. In this case having passed the course is the qualifying requirement, and after that the only thing that matters is who the team wants to work with. Old, foreign, and spending too much time on their studies (or being too smart) are all potential disqualifiers under this scheme.

Secondly, I have read many places that hiring managers care very little about grades. Even if the team does not vote people in being considered a good fit for the team is often as important or more important than who might do the job the best.

And the other over 40s, almost all of whom are in the same situation?

Brandon, with all due respect, I think you're fixating on the wrong problem.

The mission is to get your wife a job. That road goes through an interviewing process. And the road to interviews is through (among other things) a resume.

I think you'd do well to have a pro look at her resume, and see how things can be rearranged, better emphasized, etc. If you think her first name is very foreign-sounding and is potentially putting people off, then can a first initial, or a nickname be used? I went to High School with a girl named Ya Mei. She went by Linda.

Same with dates on the resume, overly emphasizing grades, etc. I have to agree with hawkeye here. The fact that she had fantastic grades is great but it probably shouldn't be a primary emphasis. She has her certification and that's the requirement. This is not dumbing down her resume; this is just changing its focus.

And if it somehow helps, if you want to think of hiring managers as all being horribly age discriminatory, then have at it. But that won't get your wife hired. So let's focus on the pathway. Resume to interview to job. Since the interview achievement isn't being unlocked, that means that the resume is to blame. Never mind anyone else's resume. We don't give a damn about those. We only care about Mrs. Brandon's resume.

are your wife's grades reflected on her resume?

get them off if they are. that'll get her resume tossed right off.

Interesting idea. I don't think they are, although they do appear in the email cover letter which has the resume attached. Again, though, most likely the other over 40s don't mention their GPAs, yet they are also being ignored.

At this point a major problem is that she has already applied to all the places that can hire her. It was very important to do this right the first time, fixing things and trying a second time will be harder.

Also, I am not sold on the idea that poor salemanship of herself must be the problem, it very well may be that these shops dont hire older workers for this job. If that is the case she should have done some research before she went to school. There are I dare say right now millions of people in schools maybe working their asses off trying to get into a career, who will almost certainly not, no matter how well they do at school. " I got trained and I can do the job well so someone will hire me" is naive. A lot of times there simply are no jobs to go to, and other times the person is not the right fit for the job either by temperament or because they fall on the wrong side of prejudice.

I can tell you right now that if I am running an office and I need a entry level person in a relativity low skilled position then I am going to be looking for a young person just starting their working life. This is partly because they are likely to fit in better with my older highly skilled staff socially. It is also because I want a mix of ages in my place, and the highly skilled people are going to tend to be older because it took years to get into the position to do the job. It is also because given the option and all else being equal I would rather have a young piece of ass to look at and talk to then an old piece of ass. Normally aging out of a job happens at about 50, but not always, I would for instance never again hire a waitress older than 35 based off of the nightmare of the older ones that I did hire. In fact I rarely hire older than 25 now.

I think this is a very intelligent analysis. However, it is hardly a relatively low skilled position. The anatomy, physiology, and positioning training is so grueling that it weeds out most of the students who enroll. They learn, among other things, the details of the electrical and chemical transmission of nerve impulses. They are responsible for knowing all about hundreds of separate patient positions, and what anatomical structures are visible or hidden in each one of them.

Despite the fact that what you say may be true, it is certainly blatantly illegal. In fact, an employer may not discriminate in hiring on the basis of age. Also, the fact that she was first in her class, got nearly 100% on the national exam, and has really glowing written references ought to be in the equation somewhere.

Also, the situation was different a number of years ago. There was a shortage of x-ray techs and hospitals were offering all sorts of extra inducements to get workers. Then another university started a Radiography program (x-ray tech) and it has flooded the market. Still, these hiring managers wouldn't like to become unhirable when they get a few years older, yet they have no problem doing it to others.

In my second field, I started at entry level at a then major small firm (I know that sounds like an oxymoron, but isn't). How? I was recommended by the head of my department at school. She had told me about the opening, as they had called her re a last year student who might be job hunting. After that firm had big trouble (recession) most of the employees were let go, and of course, me, and the firm and its clients were subsumed at some point by a nationally 'great' firm and life went on for the firm owners. But the employees had to find a job in a recession. I remember making something like thirty phone calls to design firms in Los Angeles, and the last one turned out very well. This was all before the internet, so hiring modes have changed.

1) I'd see what the school might be able to do for her. 2) I don't know about now, but in the not too distant past people did cold calling. 3) You didn't answer re working at a university, probably because that wouldn't fit her field or that there is none near you - but research teching can be enjoyable. 4) re foreign first name, that would surprise me if that was the reason, but I suppose it would be possible at one or more places. But all of them?

Next, I think a lot of this mess is from the delay back in the beginning of her actually receiving the lost certificate.
And finally, you might be right about the age thing re starter jobs. But, by now some of those young'uns may have not performed well and there maybe new spots.

Another piece of this is that hospitals have been slashing employment in order to drive profits. Nurses for instance are generally highly unsatisfied with their work situation due in large part to under staffing. I was reading an industry observer about a year ago who was saying that this level of staffing is unsustainable, that hospital managers will regret all of the layoffs.

Our local hospital has gone through several rounds of layoff and labor givebacks these last few years.

Could be that the wife come onto the job market at exactly the wrong time.

Reading through this thread Brandon, I don't see where you answered how people are figuring out how old she is by her resume.

Is she listing jobs all the way back when she was 16 or something?

Can you list only the positions she's had more recently, that would make her appear to be in her early 30's?

that or listing a high school graduation date, both will get an application tossed by me with no further look if I want young blood.

Also (I don't know if this has been covered), are there a lot of short term employment, lasting a year or less?

If the HR dept is seeing she stays at positions short term, that's a good indicator it'll happen to them too.

Training costs a lot of money. There's a lot of costs that aren't apparent.

get rid of anything referencing grades

it sounds like you need an expert to look at the resume and the covering letter

it could be problematic as she's already applied to all the likely spots but on the upside most places toss resumes after three - four months so if her name doesn't register no one will note it's her second go-round applying

Also, if there is not a shortage of workers all retreads likely are getting rejected at the front end. Why take a chance on someone who has likely already failed on one career path? I get a lot of middle aged culinary school grads like this applying, all such applications go instantly into the trash, I have no need to roll the dice with a one time loser.

your wife picked the wrong program at the wrong time

it seems like she doesn't have a good resume or covering letter

you don't seem to really like anyone's advice or recommendations

you just want things to be different

well, don't we all



to quote you elsewhere




you might want to think again about, in effect, saying 'tough ****' to others




and before you start down the trail of "this is different", I'll tell you straight up - it's not




<this is what it's like to channel my inner chai2 - cool>