They're Killing Healthy Animals in Denmark Again

@Thomas,

PS: You're welcome to quote me, but in the future, please make sure that my text and your comment about it don't appear in the same quote box. You're confusing your readers on who said what.
[/quote]

My apologies, I must have deleted a necessary bracket when I wrote my comment. I will be more careful in the future, however I doubt anyone thought my remarks were written by you.

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@Thomas,

So your definition of civilized is limited to punishment of criminals?

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@Thomas,

Thomas wrote:

Ragman wrote:
It is a public zoo..meant for public observation and consumption. Would you have wanted your children watching that slaughter?

No I wouldn't, and there would have been an easy way to avoid it: Notice the signs that "there will a lion culling at 12 pm tomorrow", and go to the lion's cage with my child at 12 pm tomorrow. Besides, nothing in CNN's article suggests that this culling was public.

I'm seriously considering starting a thread that "They're Killing Healthy Humans in Texas Again". Someone isn't having their priorities straight.

The humans being killed in Texas and elsewhere are almost always less deserving of life than the animals culled in a zoo in Denmark or elsewhere.

This comment, of course, presupposes that yours was based on the fact that murderers are put to death in Texas.

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@Finn dAbuzz,

Finn dAbuzz wrote:

So your definition of civilized is limited to punishment of criminals?

I don't see how you infer that from what I said, but I do consider the absence of capital punishment a major factor in how civilized a nation is, yes.

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@Thomas,

Thomas wrote:

Finn dAbuzz wrote:
So your definition of civilized is limited to punishment of criminals?

I don't see how you infer that from what I said, but I do consider the absence of capital punishment a major factor in how civilized a nation is, yes.

You don't?

Quote:

Because Denmark is a more civilized country than the US: Capital punishment is unconstitutional there.

Perhaps we don't have the same understanding of the use of the colon, or perhaps you believe that with the exception of criminal punishment, Denmark and the US are, in terms of civilization, tied.

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@Finn dAbuzz,

Denmark is a more civilized country than the USA. There are several ways in which this manifests itself, one of which is the fact that capital punishment is unconstitutional there. It does not follow, however, that the absence of capital punishment is the only thing that makes a nation civilized. I consider that a necessary condition, but not a sufficient one.

But enough of that. Your insufficient grasp of grammar and logic has nothing to do with the topic of this thread.

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@Thomas,

Nice attempt to dodge your malformed comment, but perhaps you will share with us the other reasons why Denmark is more "civilized" than the US. It might be helpful though if you also gave us your definition of the term "civilized." Somehow I suspect that it will have something to do with operating in agreement with your ideology.

Killing murderers bad, killing caged animals OK.

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The only good thing about zoos is that they provide good entertainment on youtube when animals eat their keepers.. Smile

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@ehBeth,

ehBeth wrote:

glitterbag wrote:
There is nothing unnatural to have bowel movements. Would you sell tickets for people who are interested in the phenomena so that they could see it

there would be nothing new in that

there have been art installations featuring all kinds of human functions

Yes that's true, however, I wasn't aware that there any humans who are unfamiliar with the bowel movement process and would need to see another perform that feat before they could manage one themselves. However, if bowel movement public presentations and butchering giraffes are considered teachable moments, have at it.

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@Finn dAbuzz,

Quote:

Killing murderers bad, killing caged animals OK.

I completely agree with with your statement, Finn. Yes, killing murderers is bad and killing caged animals is ok.

There is a more basic concept here -- "killing humans bad, killing animals Ok". Since murderers are humans and caged animals are animals, what you are saying is a subset of what Thomas is saying.

The idea that killing animals is somehow morally equivalent to killing humans is ridiculous.

(You are not one of those PETA nutjobs, are you Finn?)

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@maxdancona,

Not at all, and I would like to think you are capable of recognizing sarcasm...but maybe not because I have often been wrong in assuming you were capable of recognizing a sensible argument.

The moral equivalent is the killing of a human murderer and the killing of a rabid dog, notwithstanding any consideration of retribution which is beyond animal comprehension.

Whether or not you consider it ridiculous, I have a far greater sense of moral outrage over the deliberate killing (let alone cruelty) of an innocent animal posing no threat to anyone than of a high status human who commits a crime like abducting a fellow human and repeatedly raping and killing her.

I would rather the zoo animals continue to breath than the human monsters.

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@Finn dAbuzz,

Quote:

I would rather the zoo animals continue to breath than the human monsters.

You state this as a matter of your personal preference, and no one can argue with your personal preference.

But as a matter of morality, Western civilizations place the life of any human above the life of any animal.

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@maxdancona,

maxdancona wrote:

Western civilizations place the life of any human above the life of any animal.

Well, we're all animals here, but I agree Western civilizations place the life of any human animal over the life of any nonhuman animal. Smile

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@maxdancona,

Well that's simply not correct.

First of all there aren't multiple Western Civilizations there is one Western Civilization, and unless you've decided which Western nations are legitimately representative of the whole, the current laws of one nation versus others are hardly definitively of the mores of Western Civilization.

Western nations don't place the value of any human life above the life of another species. America certainly doesn't. If it did we wouldn't have American farmers in California being crippled by edicts established by our government to protect smelts.

How have you come to your conclusion?

Western Civilization has never held the lives of brutal murderers in high esteem. That some now feel it more "civilized" to place them in a cell for the rest of their lives rather than killing them is hardly indicative of any actual moral consideration.

Capital punishment is a political consideration. The State shouldn't have the power to kill any of its citizens, but this has nothing to do with effete notions of civilization.

Not to mention how hypocritical it is for people to unconditionally sanctify human life, irrespective of the sensible consequences of human behavior, and yet champion the freedom to exterminate the most innocent of human lives.

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@Finn dAbuzz,

Quote:

Western nations don't place the value of any human life above the life of another species. America certainly doesn't.If it did we wouldn't have American farmers in California being crippled by edicts established by our government to protect smelts.

They are taking the lives of American farmers to protect smelts? I am surprised that I haven't heard that story.

Do you have a link where American farmers are being killed?

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@Linkat,

I do not understand either why not plan ahead - only have more new ones when there is space.
I think Copenhagen Zoo has to rethink a bit.

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@Thomas,

There is some difference here. Pigs and cows were born specially for having been killed. The would not born in other case.

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@Thomas,

Thomas wrote:

Brandon9000 wrote:
They're not killing them to produce meat to feed people. They're killing them because their lives are an inconvenience.

That's a distinction without a difference. We're not killing meat animals to feed people. We could feed people by giving them corn, oatmeal, and soybeans directly, without passing them through pigs and hens first. The main reason we eat meat is for convenience, not because we have to --- just as our zoos kill lions and giraffes for convenience of gene-pool maintenance.

When I consider killing zoo animals because their lives are an inconvenience, I do not have to consider any other issue. I can reach a moral conclusion about it without considering any other issue. At worst, someone could say that whatever position I take is inconsistent with some other position of mine.

I believe that a person with empathy would want to go to some inconvenience to allow these animals to live out their lives, rather than be killed as a convenience. I also believe that a person who doesn't feel this way doesn't have very much empathy. As for meat animals, their deaths do serve the purpose of feeding people, even if the people have an alternative source of food, not merely the fact that someone rather kill an animal than feed or relocate it. I want to live, I presume that you want to live, the meat animals want to live, and those lions wanted to live. At least the deaths of the meat animals are to provide food and not merely because someone would rather kill them than be inconvenienced by them.

If you don't feel this way, in my book it's pretty much proof that you don't have much empathy. Perhaps you refrain from doing bad things to humans merely because you know that society would punish you. Because if it were based on empathy, the empathy would be evident even in cases where there was no societal censure, and it isn't.

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@ehBeth,

ehBeth wrote:

Brandon9000 wrote:
They do have alternatives, such as relocating them to other zoos over time, but they are unwilling to make the effort.

that is incorrect. No zoo was willing to accept the lions.

Wow, they checked with every zoo in the world? Hat's off to them. It would have taken me years. They could also have kept them and sent them to other zoos gradually as the possibility arose. When you really don't want to kill, you figure out ways to avoid it.

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@Thomas,

Thomas wrote:

Finn dAbuzz wrote:
So your definition of civilized is limited to punishment of criminals?

I don't see how you infer that from what I said, but I do consider the absence of capital punishment a major factor in how civilized a nation is, yes.

You've only established that the Danes neither punish the guilty (adequately) nor spare the innocent. Hardly a mark of civilization.

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They're Killing Healthy Animals in Denmark Again

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