The Party Without a Soul

Admittedly I am not up on the education system these days, so I don't know what "head starts" are. And I'm not sure what "after school programs" you're referring to. If those are programs that teach classes, then they should help the school to do better on test scores. If they are things like midnight basketball, then I'm not sure they have a lot of value in helping a child learn.


I've heard that people are worried about that, but when has it ever happened? And if a terrorist were doing research on chemical nerve agents or the manufacture of high yield explosives, wouldn't you want law enforcement to be able to see which books he had checked out? I would.


It doesn't take the USA PATRIOT Act to do this. They caught some German spies in the US during World War II trying to sabotage the war effort and held them in exactly the same way the combatants are being held at Guantanamo Bay now. It's nothing new.


It still takes a court order signed by a judge to tap your phone line. That is NEVER done "willy nilly" - not in the past and not now. The only thing the act changed (or anyway ONE thing the act changed) was that now if law enforcement gets a court order to tap a person's phone, they can apply that order to any phone he uses, without having to go get a separate court order whenever he buys a new throwaway cellular phone at the grocery store. This puts law enforcement more on an equal footing with the bad guys.

"I think I watched every bit of the 2000 GOP Convention and do not recall anybody turning their back on a scheduled gay speaker." foxfyre

I guess you're calling Deecups36 a liar. Interesting.

Infowarrior - I don't beleive foxfyre directly called anyone a liar. Foxfyre stated that they watched it and they don't recall anyone turning their backs. Kind of like Reagan doesn't recall anything and Clinton didn't recall having sexual relations with that woman Monica Lewinsky.

And as for this comment:

I don't think our forefathers intended the constitution to be spat upon and set aside when people "felt" that it didn't fit their current situation (gun control, free speech, ) I would still like to know where in the contsitution it reads "seperation of church and state"

I think you mean separation of church and state.

The phrase "separation of charch and state" was used by Jefferson and was an idea of the time.

The principle is protected by the first amendment and subsequent supreme court decisions. It is certainly one of the bedrocks of our democracy.

Wow! I almost scrolled past this thread tonight and I'm glad I didn't. Who does this foxfry think she is implying people are liars? I know what I saw. Maybe foxfry was in the 'ladies room' when Rep. Jim Kolbe addressed the GOP Convention. Either that or she nodded off from the boredom of the event.

http://www.abcnews.go.com/sections/politics/DailyNews/GOPCVN_Kolbe000801.html

From the link:

Be mindful next time of calling Deecups a liar, hon.

The article doesn't say anyone turned their backs. It says they bowed their heads in prayer.

The House Representative was from Arizona, not Texas.

And your earlier Republican-bashing because of the actions of a few Texas delegates is also in error if you believe this part of ABC's article:

So who's spitting on the Constitution, Brian?

Tarantulas

I'll take your word about the only thing different in the matter of the phone tapping is the court order thing, if that is true, then it is not too bad.

About after program schools, after program schools that include things like basketball would be a good and needful thing. It gives disavantaged kids a sense a belonging and somewhere to go other than the streets in the big cities. However, I was talking about any kind of after school programs to get kids involved and motivated so they will stay off drugs and stay in school. Head Start is a program for disavantage three and four year olds to attend pre school so that they can get a "head start" on education and learn things they will need to know when they come to school. It is for children that can't afford some of the more private pre schools. It is a wonderful program that has done a lot of good. Free meals and free books and school fees are important for disavantaged kids too and all those things cost money but it is worth it because the children are the future and if they get a good education then we are ensuring that the future of tomorrow will be bright.

About libraries, in order to find that odd terrorist who is looking up things like nerve agents and explosives, you would have to invade a lot of innocent people's privacy. Not only that there could be a perfectly innocent explanation. Perhaps they are studying it for school or something. I bet if their last name happened to seem Arabic then they would be harassed even if there is a perfectly good reason.

The bottom line about the patriot act that I don't like is that it sacrifices too much in the name of protection. If we are going to become like the nazi's then what are we fighting for? There is just too much opportunity for those with hangups to abuse all that power. That is my take on it, I understand that you disagree.

suzzy, thanks

John Kerry is out jogging one morning and notices Little Hannah on the corner with a box. Curious, he runs over to Little Hannah and says, "What's in the box, little lady?"

Little Hannah says, "Kittens, they're brand new kittens."

John Kerry laughs and says, "What kind of kittens are they?"

"Democrats," says Little Hannah.

"Oh that's cute," he says and goes on his way.

A couple of days later, John Kerry is running with his buddy Teddy Kennedy and he spies Little Hannah with her box just ahead.

Sen. Kerry says to Teddy, "You gotta check this out," and they both jog over to Little Hannah.

Sen. Kerry says, "Look in the box Teddy, isn't that cute? Look at those little kittens. Hey, kid, tell my friend Teddy what kind of kittens they are."

Little Hannah replies, "They're Republicans."

"Whoa!" John Kerry exclaims in total surprise. "I came by here the other day and you told me they were Democrats. What's changed?"

"Well," Little Hannah explains, pointing into the box. "their eyes are open now."

Deecups36, nobody called you a liar. foxfyre said that she did not recall what you'd recounted.

It's disingenuous for you to level that falsehood. Simply put it is a lie.

Under Title III of the Omnibus Crime Control and Safe Streets Act of 1968, a traditional phone wiretap could be obtained on a showing of probable cause that one of an enumerated list of crimes had been committed. Warrants were valid for only 30 days, and the government needed to report back to the court. Under the 1978 Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act the requirements for a wiretap order were more minimal: The FBI didn't need probable cause or even reasonable suspicion to install a tap, but only had to certify to a judge that information resulting from such a warrant would be "relevant" to an ongoing criminal investigation. Section 214 of the Patriot Act doesn't change this standard but broadensmerely certifies that the information obtained would be "relevant to an ongoing investigation." The probable-cause requirement in criminal cases is gone. Courts may not inquire into the truthfulness of the allegations before authorizing a tap.

I hate a party without soul....I love it when them darkies get up and play that funky jungle music. I can relate to this question. Clinton liked Fleetwood Mac, Bush Jr. likes the music from Jesus playing in his head. Quite the conundrum. I think they both secretly feel the way I do, with all the stereotypes, but just won't admit it.

suzzy, I am not picking or anything, just curious. What is the difference between "relevant to an ongoing investigation" and probable cause? (I mean it in a legal kind of way)

cavfancier

I really dislike it when people make it seem as though everyone is at heart a racist, some just more obvious than others.

Having said that, I admit very freely I don't like rap music, or hip hop or jazz (unless it is just music on jazz). My daughters who are soon to be 18 and 21 are crazy about rap and hip and hop. They also like some country and alternative rock and gospel music (not that new age christian music other than a few songs) like I do. I think it is more to do with what you are around than who you are.

revel, I'm very rarely serious with my posts. However, to rephrase, it does seem that the Dems and Conservatives are becoming difficult to tell apart, which to me is a scary thing.

I am going to register a new political party called the Quinnocrats based on the asumption that whatever is good for the Quinney's is good for the country.

I am willing to pander to anyone who can help me live well, give me money and perks, and supply me with an endless stream of pats on the back and testimonial dinners.

pm me and I'll sign you up. I'll make it worth your while.

Bi- You're gonna make us an offer we can't refuse?

Absolutely. Name your poison, and I will assist you, as Wild Bill Hickcock said the other night , in going to hell any way you want.

Now that's politics. :wink:

Bi-Polar Bear:

What will your mission statement be?

I hope a plank will say something like, "committed to making the country a GOP-free zone."

LOL!!!

It's about time you folks had a third party that makes sense, BPB...erm, at least a party that's honest anyway.

If I say yes will you send me a check?

That's the whole point you see....say yes to all with their checkbooks out. That will make the Quinneys happy, and what's good for the Quinney's is good for the country.

That's my mission statement, so my answer to you is yes, of course. Did you want to pay by check, credit card or paypal?