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Pat Tillman: Dumb jock, baby killer?

 
 
Fedral
 
Reply Wed 28 Apr, 2004 10:57 am
Pat Tillman: Dumb jock, baby killer?[/u]
Ben Shapiro
April 28, 2004

What would you call Pat Tillman, the former Arizona Cardinal football player killed in Afghanistan? A hero? An inspiring example of American military men and women? A model of principled strength?

How about a "dumb jock"? A "baby killer"? A "dumb-a--"? A victim of "brainwashing"?

If you were a regular reader of Indymedia.org, odds are that you'd put him in the latter group. You'd think that Pat Tillman was a boob, a complete dimwit at best -- you might even believe that Pat Tillman was an evil person and deserved what he got.

Indymedia.org has 50 local chapters in the United States. Forty-four of them made no mention of Pat Tillman's death. The other six celebrated it.

The Portland, Ore., chapter of Indymedia.org posted the news of Tillman's death accompanied by this headline: "Dumb Jock Killed in Afghanistan." Some who posted comments suggested alternate titles for the piece, like "Privileged Millionaire, Blinded by Nationalist Mythology, Pisses Away the Good Life," "Cottled Sports Star Allows Nationalism to Foster Jingoistic Irresponsibility Resulting in His Death," and "Capitalist Chooses to Kill Innocents Instead of Cashing Check."

Others made comments on the site comparing Tillman to a Nazi and accusing him of responsibility for "the deaths of hundreds, maybe thousands of Afghan civilians." "Karma sure is a b----, isn't it, Tillman?" one sneered.

The Urbana-Champaign, Ill., chapter of Indymedia.org posted two articles about Tillman. One carried the headline "Pat Tillman is gone good riddance." The other labeled all soldiers "dumb-a--(es)."

The North Carolina Indymedia chapter also posted a piece labeling soldiers like Tillman "dumb-a--(es)" and added that Tillman was killed during a "baby-killing raid." San Francisco Indymedia posted the same piece. St. Louis Indymedia stated that Tillman was "brainwashed by the 'patriotism.'"

One commenter on the Washington, D.C., Indymedia site wrote this: "I saw the Post this morning, on the front page. It was sickening. They built this guy up like he was Audie Murphy or something, publishing this foto of him in his Ranger getup, all tough-looking and stony-jawed, like a goddamn' recruiting ad ... Puke-o-rama. Cold as it may sound, 'Dumb Jock Dies for Pipeline in Afghanistan' pretty much sums it up."

What is Indymedia? According to its Web site, "Indymedia is a collective of independent media organizations and hundreds of journalists offering grass-roots, non-corporate coverage. Indymedia is a democratic media outlet for the creation of radical, accurate and passionate tellings of truth." Indymedia is made up of leaders in the anti-globalization and anti-war movement, coordinating massive protests. They revel in wild conspiracy theories. They're rabidly anti-capitalist and generally anti-American. In short, they're a bunch of left-wing nuts.

Yet the American left has neglected to excise the Indymedia cancer from its support base. In 2002, the left-leaning Ford Foundation gave Indymedia $50,000. The Tides Foundation has donated $376,000 to Indymedia, according to Frontpagemag.com. Two of the biggest donors to the Tides Foundation? George Soros, who has given over $15 million to Democratic causes during this election cycle, and Teresa Heinz Kerry. Ralph Nader is one of Indymedia's biggest supporters; his group, Public Citizen, is listed as on Indymedia.org as an "ally."

Indymedia is no small-potatoes venture. Aside from its Web sites based in 50 major American markets, it also has Web sites located in five chapters in Africa, 13 in Canada, 39 in Europe, 15 in Latin America, eight in Asia, and nine in Oceania.

The Indymedia list of allies is impressive as well. It lists groups like Fairness and Accuracy in Reporting, Adbusters, ZNet, the Institute for Public Accuracy, and Corporate Watch.

Largely due to an unceasing hatred for President Bush, the American political left continues to support Indymedia and its ilk. During the MoveOn.org Hitler-Bush ad scandal, liberal pundits largely refused to condemn the ads. Democratic Underground, a site linked on John Kerry's official blog, constantly pushes an extreme leftism often encroaching into paranoid territory.

This latest outrage underscores the leftist community's tolerance for an ugly, radical element. The Pat Tillman insults have been floating around the Web for days; the liberal silence is deafening. Tillman died to protect freedom of speech -- that doesn't mean anyone should use it to spit on his grave.

Link
 
Foxfyre
 
  -1  
Reply Wed 28 Apr, 2004 11:16 am
If there was no other compelling reason to not be a 'liberal', those 'liberals' who use the most vile terms to blatantly disrespect the president, the military, and the values of millions of Americans would have convinced me I want nothing to do with it.
0 Replies
 
sozobe
 
  2  
Reply Wed 28 Apr, 2004 11:28 am
There are stupid, hateful people on all sides of the spectrum. The stuff about Pat Tillman is stupid and hateful and, a liberal, I disagree with it.

But Foxfyre, Fedral, do you really want me to hunt down some of the filth posted by right-wing sites? Neither side has a monopoly on stupidity and hatefulness.
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CoastalRat
 
  2  
Reply Wed 28 Apr, 2004 11:31 am
sozobe wrote:
There are stupid, hateful people on all sides of the spectrum. The stuff about Pat Tillman is stupid and hateful and, a liberal, I disagree with it.

But Foxfyre, Fedral, do you really want me to hunt down some of the filth posted by right-wing sites? Neither side has a monopoly on stupidity and hatefulness.


I agree. There is I am afraid a very small (thank God) group of nuts on both sides of the spectrum.
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Craven de Kere
 
  3  
Reply Wed 28 Apr, 2004 11:40 am
Re: Pat Tillman: Dumb jock, baby killer?
Fedral wrote:
What would you call Pat Tillman, the former Arizona Cardinal football player killed in Afghanistan? A hero? An inspiring example of American military men and women? A model of principled strength?

How about a "dumb jock"? A "baby killer"? A "dumb-a--"? A victim of "brainwashing"?


There's an expression in Brazilian Portuguese that roughly translates to "Either 8 or 80" that's appropriate here.

I'd not call him names from either end of the spectrum.

Incidentally, this kinda thing is a logical fallacy called "guilt by association".
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Foxfyre
 
  1  
Reply Wed 28 Apr, 2004 11:45 am
I agree. I despise the hate speech no matter who utters it and no matter to whom it is directed.

Disagreement and vigorous support for a point of view is fine. It does not equate with calling a soldier 'baby killer' or the president an 'a-hole' or worse.

In the interest of free speech, it all is lawful. But it is not all profitable. The hate speect turns me off royally and causes me to question the intellect and education of those who use it.
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saintsfanbrian
 
  1  
Reply Wed 28 Apr, 2004 11:49 am
First off, Pat Tillman would be very upset at all of the mention of what he gave up and what happened to him. First and Foremost, he was a soldier, and that was more important to him then playing a dumb game. I am a huge football fan, but I am a bigger fan of heros like him that have given up the civilian sector to do a job that not too many people are willing to do these days.
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Lightwizard
 
  1  
Reply Wed 28 Apr, 2004 11:53 am
This was a self-published "article" which was posted on the open forum of the Indymedia site in Portland. It was not a headline on the main page of the site.
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Lightwizard
 
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Reply Wed 28 Apr, 2004 11:57 am
There is a lot of rebuttal posts on the site against the posting which no longer exists. Apparantly a moderator on the site picked up on the fact that it was a copyrighted article from the New York Post with an altered headline.
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doglover
 
  1  
Reply Wed 28 Apr, 2004 11:59 am
Pat Tillman, like the 700+ soldiers who have died in the wars being fought in Afghanastan and Iraq are all hero's and not 'baby killers'. The soldiers are only following the orders given to them by their Commander In Chief, George W. Bush. It is Bush whom I consider to be a killer of innocents.

While I passionately disagree with the radical wing of the liberal point of view, I would never, ever want theirs or anyone else's opinions oppressed. Everyone's voice must be allowed to be heard.
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PDiddie
 
  2  
Reply Wed 28 Apr, 2004 12:00 pm
This is some pretty sorry ****, all right.

I would rather that those who oppose the war, Bush, the rest of the administration and their policies who are unable to communicate their outrage appropriately would not stoop so low as to post their vile opinions in public. I would rather slander be kept to itself.

Pat Tillman was one hell of a football player, one hell of a soldier, and one hell of a human being.

There's a liberal opinion everyone ought to keep in mind.
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McGentrix
 
  1  
Reply Wed 28 Apr, 2004 12:10 pm
I agree with PDiddie's assessment of this situation.

Pat Tillman was one hell of a football player, one hell of a soldier, and one hell of a human being.
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Lightwizard
 
  1  
Reply Wed 28 Apr, 2004 12:12 pm
Shapiro's thinly veiled attempt to make it look like this was an official news story on Indymedia is in promotion of his book advocating that students are being brainwashed by liberal university professors. If this is the kind of dishonest characterization he is proliferating I wouldn't take him any more seriously than the any other right wing whiners. This was a posting in the open publishing forum of the site, a small branch of Indymedia. It's the view of one person and he's being thrashed on that very site.
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Lightwizard
 
  1  
Reply Wed 28 Apr, 2004 12:16 pm
I agree -- Pat Tillman followed his conscious just as other volunteers in the military. Anyone, famous or not, who looses their life following orders and especially in Afghanistan where they were searching for bin Laden is a hero in my book.
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cavfancier
 
  1  
Reply Wed 28 Apr, 2004 12:20 pm
I agree with everyone, even McG. This article really is a sorry piece of crap. It is this sort of garbage that gives both Liberals and Conservatives a bad name. I lean a little left, and all I can say is shame on you, Liberals. You are doing absolutely nothing positive for the cause.
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sozobe
 
  1  
Reply Wed 28 Apr, 2004 12:23 pm
I think Lightwizard's comments are interesting in terms of whether this can fairly be called Liberals in any larger sense, or one disturbed person who is being vilified even on that forum.

Anyway, nice to see the likes of PDiddie and McG agreeing. :-D
0 Replies
 
Lightwizard
 
  1  
Reply Wed 28 Apr, 2004 12:28 pm
Repeat, in case anyone doesn't get it, this is one poster who cut-and-pasted an article from the New York Post and tacked on that headline for a personal posting. It's against copyright laws and those on this forum should be aware that posting articles that are copyrighted and changing the headline is violating the law.
0 Replies
 
cavfancier
 
  1  
Reply Wed 28 Apr, 2004 12:31 pm
oops...Embarrassed...I get it now. Well, that's just criminal then, and I can't imagine any Liberals or Conservatives resorting to illegal activities for personal gain or recognition.
0 Replies
 
Lightwizard
 
  1  
Reply Wed 28 Apr, 2004 12:31 pm
(Not that any prosecution would ensue -- it's nearly impossible to police the Internet in this way but believe me, they are trying). It is advisable to provide links and if the article is copy and pasted to give proper credit and not alter any of the text including the headline.)
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Lightwizard
 
  1  
Reply Wed 28 Apr, 2004 12:33 pm
It's only criminal if it is determined it is plagerism. It is a grounds for a civil case if it's determined it is a violation of copyright.
0 Replies
 
 

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