24
   

Benghazi, Putin. How's Obama doing?

 
 
hawkeye10
 
  -2  
Reply Sat 8 Mar, 2014 02:08 pm
@Thomas,
Quote:
Barack Obama would be the among good company when it comes to saying he will not enforce a law. For example, Thomas Jefferson, Andrew Jackson, Abraham Lincoln and Franklin Roosevelt all stated their intention of non-enforcement or, in Lincoln’s case, he actually followed through (The Habeas Cases). Unlike the aforementioned Presidents, however, Obama is basing his non-enforcement decision not on the constitutionality of the law or provision, but on what can only be described as a policy disagreement. It could best be described as political pandering, but that is a separate subject.

And unlike those other Presidents, Obama’s reasoning is totally out of the mainstream. In all other cases, the law in question impinged upon the executive powers of the Presidency, particularly the President’s constitutional role as Commander-in-Chief. Existing immigration laws has a very tenuous relationship to that role. Also, if one looks at the statement regarding the announcement, we hear a lot about “fairness” and nothing about “constitutionality.” That leads to no other conclusion than this decision was predicated upon a policy difference.

http://www.redstate.com/diary/davenj1/2012/07/11/can-the-president-refuse-to-enforce-or-defend-a-law/
Thomas
 
  5  
Reply Sat 8 Mar, 2014 02:24 pm
@hawkeye10,
Hawkeye, could you please not put your own writing into quote boxes that suggest I'm its author? Thanks.
0 Replies
 
gungasnake
 
  0  
Reply Sat 8 Mar, 2014 02:29 pm
http://weknowmemes.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/03/knock-knock-whos-there-crimea-meme.jpg
trishathelizardqueen
 
  1  
Reply Sat 8 Mar, 2014 02:53 pm
@Lash,
y does 1 hav 2 do with other
0 Replies
 
ehBeth
 
  2  
Reply Sat 8 Mar, 2014 02:56 pm
@gungasnake,
Very Happy

I'm going to use that

Poutine with curds for sure.
0 Replies
 
coldjoint
 
  -2  
Reply Sat 8 Mar, 2014 03:15 pm
@Thomas,
Quote:
No, I do not. In the United States, the attorney-general has always reported to the president,


The Attorney General is the chief law enforcement officer. The president does not make the laws, until now.
Thomas
 
  5  
Reply Sat 8 Mar, 2014 03:25 pm
@coldjoint,
Bummer. I guess you won't be voting for Obama in the next election, then.
coldjoint
 
  -2  
Reply Sat 8 Mar, 2014 03:35 pm
@Thomas,
Quote:
Bummer

I won't be voting for Hillary either. Hopefully people will finally wise to the ruthlessness of the left.
0 Replies
 
Advocate
 
  1  
Reply Sat 8 Mar, 2014 03:45 pm
@coldjoint,
The president, through his agencies, do make regulations. According to the courts, regulations have the force and effect of the law.

A large percentage of laws enacted, especially complicated ones, state that, say, the Secretary shall promulgate regulations that explain the law.
coldjoint
 
  -2  
Reply Sat 8 Mar, 2014 03:49 pm
@Advocate,
Quote:
the Secretary


Secretary of what? Bullshit?
Advocate
 
  1  
Reply Sat 8 Mar, 2014 03:58 pm
@coldjoint,
In the case of tax legislation, it is the Secretary of the Treasury. You are showing profound ignorance.
coldjoint
 
  -3  
Reply Sat 8 Mar, 2014 04:18 pm
@Advocate,
Quote:
In the case of tax legislation, it is the Secretary of the Treasury.


But you did not say that. I will just call you stupid. Ignorant isn't nice.
0 Replies
 
coldjoint
 
  -3  
Reply Sat 8 Mar, 2014 05:21 pm
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-qRQm3aUuE5o/UxuB6CZ326I/AAAAAAABjEM/e9vS72uYMpI/s1600/Obama%27s+situation+room+gazebo.jpg
Advocate
 
  2  
Reply Sat 8 Mar, 2014 06:03 pm
@coldjoint,
coldjoint wrote:

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-qRQm3aUuE5o/UxuB6CZ326I/AAAAAAABjEM/e9vS72uYMpI/s1600/Obama%27s+situation+room+gazebo.jpg


Did you ever notice that there are no conservative comedians. You may have noticed that conservative humor is an oxymoron. Your post proves the point.
coldjoint
 
  -2  
Reply Sat 8 Mar, 2014 07:17 pm
@Advocate,
Quote:
Did you ever notice that there are no conservative comedians.


I will grant you that liberals are by far much bigger clowns. Obama has the clown ears and Moochelle the big fat clown ass.
0 Replies
 
Finn dAbuzz
 
  1  
Reply Sun 9 Mar, 2014 01:22 am
@engineer,
engineer wrote:

I think it is too early to discuss Obama's performance. He's been in office a little over five years, not eight. That said, here's how I would score it today.

Very nice comprehensive response. I'll piggyback off of it.

It's certainly not too early to assess his performance. He's been in office for only 5 years? I guess this means we can't discuss Jimmy Carter's or George HW Bush's presidency because they only had 4 years in office.

Economy: B
Inherited what could have been a complete collapse of the financial system. Drove and expanded upon emergency actions started by his predecessor to stabilize the system. Saved the US auto industry. Some economists say he should have done more in terms of public spending but I'm not in complete agreement there. Made some clever moves to put money into the bottom of the food chain like cutting the employee contribution to Social Security to 4% for a while that are completely underappreciated in terms of their stimulus value. The economy is growing slowly and he is taking heat for that but I'd rather that than a bubble. If I didn't have a job I might feel otherwise.

Grade C: It's as high as a C because he didn't botch up the emergency response the economic crash that began prior to his winning the office (and which arguably got him elected) that was set in motion by his the preceding Administration. Beyond that his policies have been a drag on an economy which has defied history and had only a tepid rebound, with post-recession growth at about 50% of what the average is for such periods. Obamacare has only begun to hurt the economy and we'll feel it's effect for a long time to come.

Taxes/Deficit: C
The reality is that our overall tax rate is too low. We've been cutting spending hard and still have a pretty big deficit. I know that some will trot out a list of programs they want to cut, but the reality is we need good infrastructure, we want a strong military, it is to all of our benefit to maintain a basic social safety net and we need to pony up and pay for it. Obama repealed one Bush tax cut (kind of). I would have been happy if he'd just let it expire full out. I understand that tax increases at the low end of the spectrum would have hurt the economy but he gave up too much at the high end of the spectrum to make up for what he preserved. To get an A here (in my book), we'd have to go back to the 2000 tax rate and that was never going to happen, but he still gets a C.

Grade D: He has shown no interest in tax or entitlement reform although everyone knows both are necessary. The problem is revenue, and there are other ways to increase it without holding out for sky high rates for the "rich." I never expected him to embrace conservative economics or tax policy, but he has been a broken record with his call for getting the rich to pay their "fair share," and shown no inclination for consideration of any alternatives that could be packaged with increased rates in a compromise. In the end, he hasn't even gotten what he's consistently demagogued about and so he has to get a poor grade.

Healthcare: B-
We need a national healthcare solution. The idea that those who can't pay just die or get so ill that they go to the emergency room, get very expensive treatments for what could have been prevented with decent preventive care, get charged 5x what they would have to pay if they had insurance, refuse to pay, are hounded by the hospital and then hounded by collection agencies that the hospitals sell the debt to is just absurd, but that was the system Obama inherited. Every US citizen who has healthcare insurance should want everyone else to have it as well to prevent this ridiculous and expensive cycle. The solution selected is not the best but it is a start. The rollout should have been a lot better. Obama gets some credit here for fighting off the horde in Congress that is doing everything possible to trip him up. If a Republican proposed this solution, they would all be behind it. After all, it was created by a Republican think tank.

Grade D: He avoids an F here only because with Obamacare he is, at least, forcing Republicans to come up with alternatives which they never would have considered otherwise. Even if the stars align for Republicans, they are not going to be able to simply repeal Obamacare and return things to the way they were. Otherwise the program is a debacle and will continue to get worse, and if you don't believe this ask yourself why he is making changes to it to delay it's full effect until after important election dates.

For the way it was passed, he and the Democrats get an F-


Foreign Policy
Category 1: Iraq: B
Gets points for getting us out, loses points for it taking so long, but I'd rather a considered withdrawal than a knee jerk response. Plus there is some merit to the "you broke it you own it" system. I'm sure some will disagree because the government there seems to be losing ground, but that was going to happen no matter when we left. The idea that we could impose a style of government on a population that wasn't ready for or didn't want is was always a pipe dream.

Grade D: Anyone can withdraw an army. Whether or not the war was ill conceived, his desperation to leave it all behind has ensured that the lives and treasure lost fighting it will have been wasted.

Category 2: Afganistan: D+
We're still there? There is a difference between a considered response and dragging your feet.

Grade C: I'll give him some credit for his half-hearted surge, but considering that he himself declared this a good war, his interest in winning it hasn't been very high. There's a fair chance we'll leave Afghanistan like we left Iraq and the Taliban will be back on top in no time flat.

Category 3: Gitmo: D-
Not an F because Congress actively tried to block him here but I didn't see a lot of effort to change the status quo either.

Grade: Incomplete: He would get an F if I was grading candidate Obama, but I'm not. Funny how actually being the president can sober some candidates up. The "failure" to close Gitmo is hardly the "fault" of Republicans. They provided him with a somewhat lame excuse for not making good on a promise he vowed to make good on the day after he took office, but once he was presented with all the facts he realized closing it down wasn't a good idea.

Category 4: Arab Spring: B
I think Obama realized a lot more than the talking heads that the Arab Spring was not about the US or the West or Democracy, it was about the self determination of the citizens of various countries. Some people were critical that the US didn't swoop in and "help" but I fail to see where the US would do anything constructive and saw lots of places where it could have made things much worse. As it was unfolding I was strongly of the opinion that less is more and I'm happy that Obama was restrained in his response. Those who want to claim that the US is arranging uprisings throughout the Middle East really don't have much to stand on.

Grade F: So his policy was designed to blunt the charges that the CIA is involved in every international dust up? I suppose it means something to liberals who take these ever present charges to heart, but come on. Let's not forget that democratic forces in Iran also tried to bring Spring to their nation, and how did Obama respond to the brutal crack down of the mullahs and their para-military thugs?

4A1: Libya revolution: B
The rebels did fine without us putting boots or arms on the ground. I thought the argument that we lost influence with the new government by not taking a more active role in supporting them to be intentionally deceptive. The reality is that Libya and the US are not all that close economically or strategically and letting Europe take the lead makes a lot of sense.

Grade C: He didn't get any Americans killed which is a big plus, but he still hasn't provided a cogent explanation of why, contrary to so much of what he says concerning other international problem areas, the US had to get involved in Libya.

4A2: Bengazi: N/A
I say N/A because this is the biggest non-scandal of the decade. To listen to those pushing this, you would think the Bengazi was the most important place in Libya and the US military has troops on standby all over the world to rush in when civilians call if only the State Department would let them help. When Congress approves funds to keep platoons of Marines stationed at every secondary embassy around the world and the State Department refuses their help, let me know. Until then, this is a tragic event that doesn't reflect on the President in any way I can see.

Grade F: It astounds me that his supporters don't see how his re-election campaign factored into the Administration's response, and the obvious disinformation peddled. The attempts to lay the inadequate security at the feet of congress is equally astounding in it's seemingly willful ignorance. Congress doesn't allocate funds specific to individual embassies. That's the job of the State Department, and if they reduced allocations equally across the board they were guilty of professional malpractice...but of course they didn't. Libya couldn't be dangerous...Bin Laden is dead and al-Qaeda is on the run! Besides, Obama sent our military over there to help them out and only Republican presidents find their war efforts back-firing on them.

4B: Syria: C
This is still ongoing so history may revise this and I'm sure others will have a different opinion. My take is the US should have minimal involvement in an open civil war in Syria. The old government was not particularly to our liking, the new government will likely not be to our liking, we don't have as big a stake in what happens in Syria as the talking heads would have us believe and I'm pretty sure whatever action we take there will be unintended consequences. I'm happy sending humanitarian support and working with Europe on sanctions. I guess I give Obama lower marks here for waffling instead of making a clear statement of what the US is going to do. Don't tell people you are going to help if you aren't.

Grade D: We don't need to get involved here and since this is the Obama default position, it's hard to credit him for not getting involved. However, our non-involvement raises the grade to a D from an F. The F is for being, as we say here in Texas, all hat and no cattle. Assad must go! Use of Chemical Weapons is crossing a red-line! Assad is still there and nothing happened when he used chemical weapons.

Putin had to pull his ass out of the fire! And Vladmir was feeling so feisty afterwards that he wrote an "opinion" piece for the NY Times in which he mocked us. A seed for the invasion of Ukraine was planted. As for those chemical weapons the elimination of which Obama and Kerry so skillfully engineered? Still there, and guess what? Assad isn't honoring the agreement. Wow! What a shock.


4C: Iran: A+
Delicate situation managed perfectly while others around you are losing their minds. Obama worked with allies, took effective actions (sanctions), kept the door open for negotiations, fended off lunatics in the US and in Iran and kept a low enough profile that nationalistic fervor in Iran did not rise up and squash moderate voices. Add to that a crushing defeat for AIPAC trying to drive us to war and you have a virtuoso performance.

Grade F: And then he released the pressure of the sanctions so he could say diplomacy is working. Assad is still in power and has chemical weapons. Unless the Israeli's strike, Iran will have nukes, and then we will hear all of the Obama apologists tells us that despite what their Man has said on numerous occassions, we never had the right to tell Iran they couldn't have nukes. Pardon me, but your reference to AIPAC seems to me unseemly.

Category 5: Ukraine: A so far.
If Syria is a work in progress, Ukraine is just getting started. Some Congressman said Russia is playing chess while we play marbles. I think Obama is a more knowledgable player or perhaps this crisis just plays to his conservative nature. Just to keep up the chess analogy, the Russian Gambit has not been met with the Kneejerk Defense where the players are drawn into a free for all where the attacker has all the advantages, but with the International Defense where after extending his forces the attacker faces pressure all across the board for the remainder of the game. The truth is that the US has no strategic interests in the Ukraine. None. Europe is another story. Working closely with the Europeans and helping rather than leading is an absolute perfect response at this point. The situation is volatile and that could change but I'm with Obama on this one so far.

Grade B: I don't know that there is anything we should be doing that we are not doing. The truth is that the US does have strategic interests in the Ukraine though. If we have strategic interests in Europe than we have them in the Ukraine, since Europe has strategic interests in the Ukraine. Do you consider the Baltic States part of Europe? You can bet your life they are watching this matter very, very closely, and more interested in our reaction than the EU's.

NSA Scandal: F
Obama just doesn't get this one and that doesn't make sense given his background. The fix for this one could be as simple as saying "I will personally review every single request that goes to the FISA court and ensure that it is appropriately focused and does not over-reach." At this point I still don't know that I would trust him to do so or to make the right calls, but it would be a start. Just saying "9-11 blah blah blah, National Security blah blah blah" is just ridiculous.

Grade B: It's pretty clear that he really didn't have a clue as to how far the NSA has gone but (and here's that influence of actually being in the office) to his credit he didn't respond with self-immolating Frank Church "reforms."

IRS Scandal: N/A
I'm glad to know the Preisdent of the US does not micromanage an IRS field office in Ohio.

Grade F: Anyone who believes this matter was isolated to a field office in Ohio either hasn't stayed informed or has taken a purely partisan position. The Boss doesn't need to give direct orders to get dirty work done. "Will no one rid me of this turbulent priest?" was uttered by Henry II and the next thing you know, Thomas Beckett was dead.

Funny but the following was written in the Huffington Post in May 2013:

President Barack Obama strongly condemned officials at the Internal Revenue Service for singling out conservative groups during the lead-up to the 2012 elections.

The man himself said: "But I have got no patience with it, I will not tolerate it, and we will make sure that we find out exactly what happened on this..."

Have they? Is there any indication that the president and the DOJ is really all that interested in finding out what happened?

There isn't even a "smidgen" of corruption in the IRS and yet Lois Lerner continues to take the 5th.

No matter whose ox is being gored, this matter should outrage every American. The IRS has incredible power and if put to political use, we are in deep trouble. The president, after all, will not always be a Democrat.


Interaction with Congress: C+
This could be lower except the Republicans are so clearly insane it's hard to see where he could do better. Poor marks for sequester, spending cuts, nominations. A very strong mark for gutting government shutdown and default as tools to extort concessions.

Grade F: Not only has made no effort to work with the opposition, he never misses a chance to castigate them, including personally. Why should the King have to deal with the lesser nobility?

Interaction with the Press: F
I was expecting more open government, not more secretive government.

Grade F: We agree. The promise of the most transparent administration in history was clearly a cynical lie. Here again I am astounded by anyone who recognizes that this administration is the polar opposite of transparent and yet trusts it.

There are other categories engineer didn't address, but I'll save them for another post.
hawkeye10
 
  1  
Reply Sun 9 Mar, 2014 01:37 am
@Finn dAbuzz,
Quote:
It's certainly not too early to assess his performance. He's been in office for only 5 years?


Maybe we have no right to make an opinion of any one term president. Drunk
Finn dAbuzz
 
  1  
Reply Sun 9 Mar, 2014 01:42 am
@hawkeye10,
You quoted engineer, not me.

This didn't get properly "colored," but was written by me

It's certainly not too early to assess his performance. He's been in office for only 5 years? I guess this means we can't discuss Jimmy Carter's or George HW Bush's presidency because they only had 4 years in office.

It wasn't all that clear, I admit, but perhaps you should restrain yourself with the usage of insulting emoticons.
hawkeye10
 
  0  
Reply Sun 9 Mar, 2014 01:46 am
@Finn dAbuzz,
Quote:
You quoted engineer, not me.

This didn't get properly "colored," but was written by me


In other words I figured this out, I quoted you, and my post was 100% accurate.
panzade
 
  3  
Reply Mon 10 Mar, 2014 03:23 am
@Lash,
1. Hell of a thread Lash, as usual.

2.
Quote:
Benghazi mattered. Had we handled it correctly and responsibly, Mr Putin would likely not be where he is right now.


I sat and stared at this and thought "Really? Benghazi motivated Putin? Really?"

2. Good synopsis of an uneven President, engineer.
A few "quabbles" but on the whole, fair.
0 Replies
 
 

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