31
   

COUP IN KYIV?

 
 
Lordyaswas
 
  1  
Reply Tue 25 Feb, 2014 03:21 am
@Lordyaswas,
Now we've sorted out the world from our respective armchairs, I'm off down the caff to indulge in a full english.

Funny/snide comebacks welcome. When I read them on a full belly, I won't mind a bit.
0 Replies
 
izzythepush
 
  1  
Reply Tue 25 Feb, 2014 03:49 am
@Finn dAbuzz,
So typical of your monochromatic thinking, anyone who doesn't agree with your tub thumping is a Soviet apologist. You wouldn't know the truth if it bit you on the arse.

Try some realpolitik for a change. A significant number of Ukraine's population are Russian speaking. That's a fact. Any accommodation needs to take all the Ukrainians into account, unless you're talking ethnic cleansing, which is something I wouldn't put past you.

Just for once try living in the World as it is, and not some fantasy dreamed up by pundits on Fox News.
0 Replies
 
izzythepush
 
  1  
Reply Tue 25 Feb, 2014 04:57 am
@glitterbag,
glitterbag wrote:

Out of curiosity, how many countries do you think the United States should be controlling? I would think that the ill conceived decision to go after imaginary weapons in Iraq which in turn redirected efforts in Afganistan having been such a raging success, would make wise people review all the available options.


Exactly, 'Dubya' pissed away all of America's goodwill generated by 9/11 on an ill conceived, poorly planned, and ultimately disastrous invasion of Iraq. There is no way America will ever again be able to cobble together a coalition of the willing on another pointless military adventure. The vote in the Commons ruling out British involvement in Syria is 'Dubya's' legacy. Finn needs to stop living in the past and accept America's standing. Sending American troops to their deaths just to force a bunch of Russian speakers to remain Ukrainian may inflate his bank balance, but it wouldn't do anyone else any good, least not the ordinary Ukrainians.

Finn only cares about getting his snout in the trough which is why everything he says should be treated with a pinch of salt.
izzythepush
 
  1  
Reply Tue 25 Feb, 2014 05:16 am
@izzythepush,
The latest.

Quote:
Ukraine's interim President Olexander Turchynov has warned of the dangers of separatism following the ousting of President Viktor Yanukovych.

Many in Ukraine's Russian-speaking regions oppose his overthrow and the installation of a more European-leaning interim administration.

Russia is also angry at the changes, but Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov has said Moscow will not intervene.

The formation of a unity government has been delayed until Thursday.

Russian flag in Sevastopol, 25 February 2014 Many in people, such as here in Sevastopol, oppose the changes in Kiev
Addressing parliament, Mr Turchynov said he would meet law enforcement agencies to discuss the risk of separatism in regions with large ethnic Russian populations.

Separatism was a "serious threat", he said.

Crimea and some pro-Russian areas in the east have seen protests against the overthrow of Mr Yanukovych, sparking fears of secession.

The delay in announcing a unity government was to allow further consultations, Mr Turchynov said, adding that "a coalition of national faith must be elected".

'Unilateral advantages'

Russia has been vehemently opposed to the changes in Ukraine, with Prime Minister Dmitry Medvedev saying on Monday that those behind the new administration had conducted an "armed mutiny".

At a news conference in Moscow on Tuesday, Mr Lavrov warned other states against seeking "unilateral advantages" in Ukraine, but said Russia's "policy of non-intervention" would continue.

"It is dangerous and counter-productive to try to force on Ukraine a choice according to the principle of either being with us or against us," he said.

Mr Lavrov added that "it is in our interest for Ukraine to be part of the broad European family" but against Russia's interest to "allow the radicals and nationalists who are clearly trying to take centre stage to prevail."

It is still unclear where Mr Yanukovych is, but an arrest warrant has been issued. He was last reportedly seen on Sunday in Balaklava on the Crimean peninsula.

Acting Interior Minister Arsen Avakov said a criminal case had been opened against the ousted president and other officials over "mass murder of peaceful citizens".

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-26333587
Setanta
 
  2  
Reply Tue 25 Feb, 2014 05:40 am
@izzythepush,
izzythepush's source wrote:
Russia is also angry at the changes, but Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov has said Moscow will not intervene.


I hope this is true. No one in the west can really do anything effective in the Ukraine, other than to provide loans or loan guarantees. The people of the Ukraine need to work this out themselves, without outside interference. Russia is really the only player who can intervene. They need to stand aside.
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Tue 25 Feb, 2014 05:45 am
@Setanta,
In Sevastopol, a pro-Russian mayor has been installed. That will enlarge separatist sentiments.

Ukraine crisis fuels secession calls in pro-Russian south
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Tue 25 Feb, 2014 05:58 am
@Walter Hinteler,
That's more like the policy Russia pursued with regard to Georgia. Abkhazia and Ossetia declared their independence, and Russia provided material support and even military intervention. Sort of a "if i can't have it, you won't either" policy.
Lordyaswas
 
  1  
Reply Tue 25 Feb, 2014 06:24 am
@Setanta,
Could be that the next three chess moves will result in some sort of long term lease (to give it a harmless sounding title) of Crimea, so that it becomes part of Russia in all but name.
It would certainly go a long way to solving the Black Sea Fleet situation.

Maybe they could pay for the 'rent' on the lease by way of cheap gas.

Everyone could be a winner if they all keep cool.
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Tue 25 Feb, 2014 06:35 am
@Lordyaswas,
Yes, let's hope they all do.
0 Replies
 
izzythepush
 
  1  
Reply Tue 25 Feb, 2014 09:22 am
Quote:
Meanwhile there are reports that one of Mr Yanukovych's former aides, Andriy Kliuyev, has been shot and wounded.

Russian flag in Sevastopol, 25 February 2014 Many in people, such as here in the Crimean city of Sevastopol, oppose the changes in Kiev
Mr Kliuyev's car is said to have been attacked while he was travelling back to Kiev from the Crimea after tendering his resignation to the former president. A spokesman was quoted on local media as saying his life was not in danger.

Mr Kliuyev, the former head of the presidential administration, is said to have left Kiev with the president when he fled the capital at the weekend.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-26333587
0 Replies
 
JTT
 
  0  
Reply Tue 25 Feb, 2014 09:25 am
@Finn dAbuzz,
Finn: There is no justification for Russia to invade the Ukraine, any more than there was for it to invade Georgia.
--------

The hypocrisy has to be like water off a duck's back, right, Finn? A USian can't open their mouth without spouting hypocrisy.
0 Replies
 
JTT
 
  0  
Reply Tue 25 Feb, 2014 09:27 am
@Finn dAbuzz,
Finn: sorry, but this Kyiv spelling is just pretentious crap
-------

Pretentious crap, from our historian, Setanta. Surely you jest, Finn.
0 Replies
 
JTT
 
  0  
Reply Tue 25 Feb, 2014 09:30 am
@hawkeye10,
Hawk: Super, but getting rid of a corrupt leader must be done under the orders set by the Constitution. Was it here?
/////////

Has it ever worked in the USA, Hawk?
0 Replies
 
JTT
 
  0  
Reply Tue 25 Feb, 2014 09:36 am
@Finn dAbuzz,
Finn: you obviously have a dead spot in your brain as respects history

//////////

Good dog, Finn, the hypocrisy!! And you are hardly the only one.
0 Replies
 
JTT
 
  0  
Reply Tue 25 Feb, 2014 09:39 am
@Setanta,
The land of the brave just picks on poor defenceless countries that have ample riches to steal.
0 Replies
 
izzythepush
 
  1  
Reply Tue 25 Feb, 2014 10:54 am
Quote:
Russian police have made nearly 500 arrests at opposition rallies in the country's two main cities, including several well-known protest figures.

Opposition leader Alexei Navalny was among those picked up in Moscow on Monday evening, as he attended an unapproved rally near the Kremlin.

He and others have appeared in court, charged with offences that entail a fine or detention of up to 15 days.

The rallies were called to protest at sentences passed on other activists.

Seven people had received prison terms of up to four years on Monday, for rioting and attacking police at a demonstration against Vladimir Putin's inauguration for a third presidential term in May 2012, in Bolotnaya Square, Moscow.

Human rights organisation Amnesty International condemned the sentences as a "hideous injustice", at the end of a "show trial".

An eighth defendant, the only woman on trial, received a suspended sentence.

While the rallies on Monday in Moscow and St Petersburg were called to protest at the Bolotnaya sentences, some demonstrators also made shows of solidarity with the protesters in Ukraine, who brought down President Viktor Yanukovych last week.

'Maidan'

Police arrested 420 people in Manege Square, under the walls of the Kremlin, hours after picking up some 200 people outside the court where the Bolotnaya defendants were being tried.

It appears that many of those detained near the court were released shortly afterwards, and at least some of them went to Manege Square for the bigger rally.

Among those detained in Moscow were Pussy Riot punk band members Nadezhda Tolokonnikova and Maria Alyokhina, both recently freed from prison under an amnesty, and former Deputy Prime Minister Boris Nemtsov.

Those held overnight were apparently being charged with either disobeying a police request or breaching the rules on holding rallies.

In St Petersburg, 60 people were arrested at a similar protest rally.

Outside the court in Moscow, some demonstrators had shouted "Maidan" - a reference to the square in Kiev where Ukrainian protesters camped out before finally toppling the country's elected president.

However, Mr Navalny distanced himself from events in Ukraine, saying that Russia had its own battle for freedom.

Russian state TV coverage of the Bolotnaya trial drew analogies with the unrest in Ukraine, the Associated Press notes.

"With the events on the Maidan as a background, it's even more obvious what all of this could have led to, had it not been for the government's clear, tough response," one unnamed TV presenter was quoted as saying.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-26337693
0 Replies
 
Romeo Fabulini
 
  0  
Reply Tue 25 Feb, 2014 11:19 am
AHA, THIS EXPLAINS EVERYTHING..Smile
The fugitive President and his cronies jailed the previous President Yulia two years ago, so no wonder the people are outraged, what a little sweetie..Smile

http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g64/PoorOldSpike/sub2/yulia_zps810f767a.jpg~original
0 Replies
 
izzythepush
 
  1  
Reply Tue 25 Feb, 2014 12:20 pm
Throughout all this we need to bear in mind how this plays out in Russia. For many of them the collapse of the Soviet Union was humiliating. The lawlessness that followed, and the inability to collect taxes meant Yeltsin had to go cap in hand to America. All the while Russia's sphere of influence, (near abroad) was being taken over by America: Albania, Bulgaria, Croatia, Czech Rep, Estonia, Hungary, Latvia, Lithuania, Poland, Romania, Slovakia and Slovenia are all members of NATO. Long term ally Serbia was attacked by NATO, forced to give up Kosovo, and now even they are applying for EU membership.

The action in Nagorno-Karabakh is viewed as the high water mark in what had been a gradual takeover by America. That was where the line was drawn, America could have so much but no more. As far as the Russians are concerned, they're not the aggressors, it's the Americans, and the Americans are being sneaky and underhand about it.

That's why any suggestion of sabre rattling by the West would be disastrous. Putin would be backed into a corner by his success in Nagorno-Karabakh, his hard man image would be under threat and he would be compelled to act. It's just as well there's a man in the Whitehouse with a level head on his shoulders.
0 Replies
 
Romeo Fabulini
 
  0  
Reply Tue 25 Feb, 2014 12:31 pm
Quote:
Izzy said:... a gradual takeover by America. That was where the line was drawn, America could have so much but no more. As far as the Russians are concerned, they're not the aggressors, it's the Americans, and the Americans are being sneaky and underhand about it.

The bottom line the Ukrainians should be asking is "will we be better or worse off under an American takeover?"
Anyway the definition of "takeover" is open to interpretation.
After all, many countries are America's NATO allies and partners, and don't seem to mind.
izzythepush
 
  0  
Reply Tue 25 Feb, 2014 12:34 pm
@Finn dAbuzz,
Finn dAbuzz wrote:

Obviously it isn't all Obama's fault



Quote:
You really are a Soviet Leftist izzy.


You're an idiot. If you're looking for a Putin apologist look no further than your old pal Gungasnake. Putin is racist, homophobic, fascistic, Islamophobic, and on top of that he's incredibly rich. If he was an American you'd have this on your bedroom wall.
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-0BeVPAQKugg/UNyWj2jAq3I/AAAAAAAAEHE/y8qcIY1c5pw/s1600/Putin+Nude.jpg
0 Replies
 
 

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