31
   

COUP IN KYIV?

 
 
Foofie
 
  -2  
Reply Sun 23 Feb, 2014 03:47 pm
Why is this news? Western Ukraine wants to be European, and not Slavic. Eastern Ukraine is content to be Slavic, aligned with Mother Russia.

And, in my opinion, for all the effort that Western Ukraine is putting into its new hoped for identity, I believe they might be disappointed when they find out how "giving" the EU might be. As the saying goes, "No good deed goes unpunished." Just my opinion, of course.
Walter Hinteler
 
  4  
Reply Sun 23 Feb, 2014 03:55 pm
@Foofie,
Just saying here "West" and "East" seems a bit simple as far as I have followed the news.

http://i1334.photobucket.com/albums/w641/Walter_Hinteler/a_zps80bc32ab.jpg
Lordyaswas
 
  2  
Reply Sun 23 Feb, 2014 04:14 pm
@Walter Hinteler,
And that brownish dot on the Crimea (at the very bottom of the map), is exactly where the Russian Black Sea Fleet is stationed.

Putin won't give that up easily....
Lordyaswas
 
  1  
Reply Sun 23 Feb, 2014 04:21 pm
@Lordyaswas,
From Wiki.......

"The Russian Black Sea Fleet's use of leased facilities in Sevastopol and the Crimea has been controversial. A number of incidents have taken place:

A lighthouse is located on the headland, which from 2005, was the subject of a controversy between Ukraine and Russia. From August 3, 2005, the lighthouse is occupied by the Russian Army.[45] Not paying attention to the ruling of the Government Court in Sevastopol on the subject of the return of 77 geographical objects to Ukraine (including the lighthouse on Sarych), Russian military officials referred to the fact that they only subordinate to the chief of the Russian Navy headquarters and no one else. The Ukrainian public activists state that Sarych is illegally occupied by the Russian Navy.[46] As a military object, the territory around the Sarych headland is closed to trespassers with barbed wire with the Russian flag flying above Sarych.[47]
In 2006, Ukrainian officials prevented Russian workers from entering the Black Sea Fleet lighthouse in Yalta.[citation needed]
During the 2008 South Ossetia War, the Ukrainian Navy was ordered to block the entrance of Russian vessels taking part in hostilities to Sevastopol.[48] However, Russian Navy ships returned to base unimpeded.
June 20, 2009 – In Sevastopol, an incident again took place involving the Black Sea Fleet. In 2007, the administration of this organization was contracted by some 200 citizens of Sevastopol to build four several stories residential buildings. The job was never finished although the financial aspect of the contract was fulfilled as it was a prepaid venture. At this time, there are only two buildings that are only finished at 95% as stated in the local newspaper Novyi Sevastopol. The protesters are being simply kicked out by force without any intention to regulate the conflict. The protesters also sent a letters to the President and the Prime-Minister of the Russian Federation, Dmitry Medvedev and Vladimir Putin, and also to the Minister of Defense of Russia, Anatoliy Serdyukov. Those attempts brought no results. UNIAN
On August 27, 2009, Ukrainians identifying themselves as bailiffs were detained when they attempted to seize a Russian lighthouse. Russia states that Ukrainians may not step onto its bases without permission.[49]
On April 16, 2013 a "high-ranking Russian Defense Ministry official" complained to Interfax that “Ukraine’s stubborn position" was slowing the cancellation of customs payments (for the fleet) and that Ukraine still upheld (former) Ukrainian President Viktor Yushchenko 2008 decrees that banned the "relaxed procedure" of Black Sea Fleet formations across the Ukrainian border.[11]........"
0 Replies
 
izzythepush
 
  1  
Reply Sun 23 Feb, 2014 04:22 pm
@Foofie,
Foofie wrote:

Why is this news?


Because it's all kicking off right now.
Lordyaswas
 
  2  
Reply Sun 23 Feb, 2014 04:26 pm
@izzythepush,
Don't take its bait, Izzy. I didn't even know it was there until you quoted it.

Lordyaswas
 
  2  
Reply Sun 23 Feb, 2014 04:45 pm
It'll be interesting now to see what Putin does, now the Winter Olympics are over.

He'll probably go the 'subtle threat' route. Turn their gas pipe off 'accidentally' for a day or two....spread a rumour that the military will be moved in...beef up the naval presence....

Meanwhile, Obama, via a minion, has strongly advised Russia not to interfere.

Knowing Putin, it will be Obama who blinks first.
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Sun 23 Feb, 2014 04:47 pm
Good advice, that . . . don't feed the Miller/Foofie troll, Izzy.
0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  2  
Reply Sun 23 Feb, 2014 04:49 pm
@Walter Hinteler,
Thanks, Walter. I was not finding good information on the paramilitaries. (Not a lot of time to devote to it today.)
0 Replies
 
izzythepush
 
  1  
Reply Sun 23 Feb, 2014 06:01 pm
You're both right.
0 Replies
 
hawkeye10
 
  0  
Reply Sun 23 Feb, 2014 07:06 pm
@Lordyaswas,
Quote:
Knowing Putin, it will be Obama who blinks first.

there is no contest, America holds no cards, Putin holds all of the cards.

Quote:
Turn their gas pipe off 'accidentally' for a day or two
no need for an accident, energy gets shipped from Russia to Ukraine on credit, all Russia needs to do is to decide not to accept the credit. .....no money no gas. The world bank is already having massive problems supporting its current obligations, neither they nor anyone else has a pocket book willing to pay this bill.
0 Replies
 
JTT
 
  -1  
Reply Sun 23 Feb, 2014 08:57 pm
@Setanta,
Set: showing that a majority of Ukrainians are opposed to NATO membership and 40% considering NATO to be a threat to the Ukraine.

You can hardly blame them. NATO is quite the terrorist group.
0 Replies
 
hawkeye10
 
  -1  
Reply Sun 23 Feb, 2014 11:27 pm
I love how an emergency installed caretaker government is on the very first day announcing major changes in Ukrainian policy. The only thing these boys and girls should be doing in holding the country together till they can conduct elections. The Wests nearly universal approval of this assault on democracy will not end well. Democracy is not about the will of the loudest or the ones with the best weapons, it is about the will of the people, and elections are needed to measure the will of the people.
izzythepush
 
  2  
Reply Mon 24 Feb, 2014 02:33 am
@hawkeye10,
Assault on democracy? Yanukovych gave himself further powers, imprisoned his main rival of bogus corruption charges, used militia to kill and torture the protesters and siphoned of public money to live in opulence.

It's parliament that dismissed him not the military, including many in his own party, sick of the corruption and human rights abuses.
izzythepush
 
  1  
Reply Mon 24 Feb, 2014 02:34 am
@izzythepush,
The latest.

Quote:
Ukrainian interior minister says warrant issued for arrest of former President Viktor Yanukovych

More to follow.


http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-26320004
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Mon 24 Feb, 2014 03:09 am
@hawkeye10,
Which is why elections are going to be held in May, dipshit. You never let your profound ignorance get in the way of your phony-baloney indignation. You run into a thread, knowing f*ck-all about the subject and attempt to take a stand on principles--but you never know enough to make the stand credible. What's amazing to me if your complete inability to acknowledge your ignorance. All you seem to think is needed is a politically correct, conservative point of view. You're pathetic.
izzythepush
 
  1  
Reply Mon 24 Feb, 2014 03:14 am
@izzythepush,
izzythepush wrote:


Quote:
Ukrainian interior minister says warrant issued for arrest of former President Viktor Yanukovych

More to follow.


And here it is.

Quote:
Arsen Avakov said in a Facebook post a criminal case had been opened against Mr Yanukovych and other officials over "mass murder of peaceful citizens".

MPs voted to remove Mr Yanukovych on Saturday after months of protest sparked by his rejection of an EU deal.

A crackdown on the protests last week left dozens dead.

Mr Avakov said Mr Yanukovych was seen in Balaklava on the Crimean peninsula on Sunday, but that he had left by car for an unknown destination, accompanied by an aide.

Before leaving Balaklava he had relieved his security detail of their duties, said the statement.

Mr Avakov - an key opposition figure - was appointed interim interior minister on Saturday, in a day of fast-paced events in parliament.

He replaced Vitaly Zakharchenko, who was sacked the day before after being blamed for the deaths of civilians in the crackdown on protesters.

The protests first began in late November when Mr Yanukovych rejected a landmark association and trade deal with the EU in favour of closer ties with Russia.

Mr Yanukovych insisted on Saturday that he was still Ukraine's legitimate leader, but he had become increasingly isolated and parliament voted to impeach him and hold presidential elections in May.

Meanwhile, the new interim finance minister, Yuriy Kolobov, has said Ukraine needs around $35bn (£21bn) in urgent foreign aid and asked for an international donors' conference to be held.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-26320004
izzythepush
 
  1  
Reply Mon 24 Feb, 2014 03:19 am
One weapon in the West's arsenal, (particularly the UK's) is the ability to withdraw travel visas. Many of Yanukovych's supporters/financers are wealthy Ukranian/Russian oligarchs with substantial property portfolios, (and most of a family life) in London's West End. Withdrawal of travel visas will have a significant impact on their lifestyles.
hawkeye10
 
  1  
Reply Mon 24 Feb, 2014 03:36 am
@Setanta,
Quote:
Which is why elections are going to be held in May, dipshit.
which is why an announcement that Ukraine will attempt to more closely integrate with Europe should not happen till after May brainiac......
hawkeye10
 
  1  
Reply Mon 24 Feb, 2014 03:47 am
@izzythepush,
Quote:
One weapon in the West's arsenal, (particularly the UK's) is the ability to withdraw travel visas.
you could engage in Ukraine politics by way of retaliatory strikes, but it would be dumb for the same reason that torturing enemy combatants is....if you do it to others you lose any argument against others doing it to you.
 

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