COUP IN KYIV?

@Romeo Fabulini,

The bottom line is you're out of your depth. Any perceived American takeover would be disastrous. All negotiations should be with the EU.

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@Romeo Fabulini,

Romeo Fabulini wrote:

Anyway the definition of "takeover" is open to interpretation.

Of course it is. That's the point, it's how the Russians view it.

You're posting stuff that is days old, you seem to have had no knowledge whatsoever about the Ukraine until you came across this thread.

1 Reply

@Setanta,

Set: Sort of a "if i can't have it, you won't either" policy.

That is a perfect description of USA foreign policy vis a vis Cuba.

Vietnam, Korea, Laos, Cambodia, ... .

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@Lordyaswas,

Lordy: Could be that the next three chess moves will result in some sort of long term lease (to give it a harmless sounding title) of Crimea, so that it becomes part of Russia in all but name.

Sort of like Guantanamo, Lordy?

Lordy: Maybe they could pay for the 'rent' on the lease by way of cheap gas.

Wouldn't it be better in the sense of more equitable to take the Crimea, because they can, and pay for it by terrorizing the Ukraine for the next half century or so with illegal and immoral embargoes, numerous attempts on Ukrainian leaders lives, introducing disease into the Ukraine, machine gunning civilians.

Let's do maintain a little perspective, Lordy.

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I wonder, how does it feel to be a snivelling thumber? Maybe these are ex-USAF or napalm pilots, the brave folks who agent oranged the vietnamese people, soldiers that machine gunned villagers, navy personnel who fire on people from way out at sea, the grand collection of the brave.

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Here's an interesting piece from Prof Andrei Zagorski, a political analyst at Moscow's Institute of World Economy and International Relations.

Extract.....

"Ukraine has restored its 2004 constitution, which empowers parliament and the government, rather than the president. So a resolution of the political legitimacy crisis in Ukraine will depend not so much on the expected presidential elections in May, but on the anticipated parliamentary elections in summer.

The parliamentary elections may provide Russia and EU with more incentives to co-operate. Neither Moscow nor Brussels are interested in a collapsing Ukraine. Both should be interested in the establishment of a legitimate government and, for that reason, in fair elections. Brussels will want to see a government that enjoys maximum popular support, and Moscow will want a rebalancing of the current political constellation in Kiev.

It would be best - for the EU and Russia - to postpone any decision to sign the EU-Ukraine association agreement.

It was Mr Yanukovych's refusal to sign that deal which triggered the protests back in November. But if Ukraine were to sign it now it would be interpreted in Moscow as a strategic defeat. The deal could be signed once the political and financial situation in Ukraine has stabilised.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-26336032

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@Lordyaswas,

That makes a lot of sense.

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@Setanta,

Setanta wrote:

Not every thing is about the U.S. In fact, the U.S. has almost nothing to do with this. This is not between Moscow and Washington.

American diplomats have left behind plenty of evidence that the US is fully involved in this:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-26079957

1 Reply

@Lordyaswas,

Quote:

"Ukraine parliament has restored its 2004 constitution, which empowers parliament and the government, rather than the president

Fixed

This is BULLSHIT by the way, any Constitutional change not ratified by the people is worthless. Even if the last change avoided the put to the people as well at this point it has to be. Moscow has a great point that this is all anti democratic and clearly illegal actions which no one should support.

1 Reply

@oralloy,

O: American diplomats have left behind plenty of evidence that the US is fully involved in this:

Well duuuuuh.

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@hawkeye10,

hawkeye10 wrote:

Quote:
"Ukraine parliament has restored its 2004 constitution, which empowers parliament and the government, rather than the president

This is BULLSHIT by the way, any Constitutional change not ratified by the people is worthless.

So when the President decides to give himself extra powers that's fine. When Parliament reverses that decision it's bullshit, because that reversal hasn't been served up as a referendum.

Only a mind such as yours could come up with something so profound.

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timoshenko was a paid by the rich employee and planned to let rich take over the country.

1 Reply

@markjameson2008,

Any chance of having that in a proper sentence? You know, something that actually makes sense.

1 Reply

@izzythepush,

There is a bit of slung mud that follows Timoschenko around, in that she is supposed to have made a fortune out of various big business contracts when she was in power.
I think that was what the people interviewed in the street were alluding to the other day, about her being part of the 'old' set up and their desire now for new faces.

1 Reply

@Lordyaswas,

I got the same impression, the message was out with the old in with the new. I also heard of possible legislation to disbar the 100 richest people from political office. We should try that over here, no more Bullingdon Boys in parliament or as mayors.

The latest.

Quote:

Ukraine's acting interior minister has said the elite Berkut police unit, blamed for the deaths of protesters, has been disbanded.

It is unclear what will happen to Berkut officers, but Arsen Avakov said more details would be given in a briefing on Wednesday.

The unit had 4,000-5,000 members stationed across Ukraine.

Meanwhile, a new cabinet is expected to be presented to protesters in Kiev on Wednesday afternoon

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-26350088

1 Reply

@izzythepush,

Putin puts troops in western Russia on alert ...

"In accordance with an order from the president of the Russian Federation, forces of the Western Military District were put on alert at 1400 (1000 GMT) today," Interfax quoted Defence Minister Sergei Shoig

1 Reply

@Walter Hinteler,

From reuters

Quote:

Putin has ordered several such surprise drills in various parts of Russia since he returned to the presidency in 2012, saying the military must be kept on its toes, but the geopolitical overtones could hardly have been clearer this time.

The western district borders Ukraine, which lies between NATO nations and Russia. Shoigu said the drill would be conducted in two stages, ending on March 3, and also involved some forces in central Russia.

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@izzythepush,

I admit I have no knowledge of Ukraine until a few days ago I saw an article on a news site, which is why I haven't said too much.

However, it is really not surprising that certain US conservative posters are siding with Russia, think Obama is at the bottom of the coup, are at the very least think Obama will not do anything either way. US conservatives seem to have a strong attraction to all things Putin these days because he holds many of the same views as they do.

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@revelette2,

Quote:

US conservatives seem to have a strong attraction to all things Putin these days because he holds many of the same views as they do.

What are you smoking?

How can you logically think or opine that American conservatives would align in any way, shape or form with the former head of the KGB and current head of the gov't of Russia. Is it too hard for you to understand he would STILL be the political arch-enemy of all things in the American right wing conservative movement? Communists were the enemies of American right wing faction and, regardless of the change of the form of gov't, they still are. Why the confusion?

3 Replies

@Ragman,

Ragman wrote:

How can you logically think or opine that American conservatives would align in any way, shape or form with the former head of the KGB and current head of the gov't of Russia. I

The "current head of the gov't of Russia" (Chairman of the Government of the Russian Federation), Dmitry Medvedev, has never been a member of the KGB ... as far it is known here.
If you are referring to the President of Russia, Vladimir Putin, he served as an KGB-officer (Lieutenant Colonel, when he retired in from the KGB in 1991).

1 Reply

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