COUP IN KYIV?

@hawkeye10,

And it doesn't engender in y'all (not really you all) the slightest bit of guilt or remorse. All these years, all the propaganda about the Russkies, the Nazis, PolPot, Idi Amin, ... and y'all are no different.

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Seems that the CIA is now in charge of the revolution or counter-revolution or the whole affair or ...

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@Walter Hinteler,

I suppose there is proof of it somewhere?

You know, I never knew we were to blame for the whole world's problems until these last few years. I used to think it was just the Bush administration because of the Iraq and the redoing of the international understanding of the meaning of torture (calling it quaint..) and I could get that. I also see the spying stuff as being problematical, but, it just this animosity with most of the other people here towards the US and seeing every single action by US as some kind of deep rooted evil just seems to have passed the bounds of rationality.

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@revelette2,

revelette2 wrote:

I suppose there is proof of it somewhere?

Media. White House (= White House press secretary Jay Carney) confirmed the visit of the CIA director.

No. they didn't say a lot about it ... part of Brenner's visit to Europe. (Perhaps, he's just privately on Easter holidays?)

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@Walter Hinteler,

So a visit from the CIA director means they are in charge of the Kiev government?

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@revelette2,

I don't think so.
Perhaps he just explained his Ukrainian counter-parts, why the CIA/USA didn't share a lot of information with them.

Quote:

“Hopefully Mr. Brennan’s trip will lead to more intelligence sharing on Russian activities threatening Ukraine,” House Intelligence chairman Mike Rogers said in a statement to BuzzFeed. The U.S. has neglected to share key intelligence with the Ukrainians during the political crisis that has resulted in the Russian annexation of Crimea. The Daily Beast reported last week that senior U.S. military officers had been told not to give details to their Ukrainian counterparts about Russian troop movements along the border with Ukraine.

Source

But I do think that they will continue to work like they've done it before:Covert United States foreign regime change actions. (And that's actually really one of the purposes of this agency!)

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@Walter Hinteler,

Walter Hinteler wrote:

Seems that the CIA is now in charge of the revolution or counter-revolution or the whole affair or ...

this would be the same CIA that had no idea that Putin was going to take the Crimea until he did it?

The problem with Ukraine is that no one is in charge, and Putin knows it. I was reading yesterday that this ends when Ukraine becomes a federation, that is too weak to act on any desire there might be to become "European". This sounds right.

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@hawkeye10,

hawkeye10 wrote:

this would be the same CIA that had no idea that Putin was going to take the Crimea until he did it?

No, because that CIA only exists in your mind.

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@Walter Hinteler,

In relation to the Ukrine and Russia do you remember Neville Chamberlain at the start of Hitlers takeover of Europe? Looks to me as if Europe is doing what it does best and is ignoring what is going on its continent or blaming someone else, the US of A, for its problems.

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@RABEL222,

I do think, Rabel, that you didn't follow what "Europe" did and does - from the EU (which is only half of Europe) to the Council of Europe (which represents all Europe). And in between the diplomati actions of some countries from the very beginning onwards ...

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@Walter Hinteler,

I seriously doubt he went all the way over to Ukraine to merely explain why they aren't sharing information.

In any case, didn't know the CIA was involved in regime change as part of their functions.

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@hawkeye10,

No, that would be Putin.

Quote:

Russia is not considering trying to make Crimea a part of Russia, Russian President Vladimir Putin

source

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@RABEL222,

I agree; not necessarily in regards to back then, but to me looking at the here and now, it just seems like from a lot of the EU there seems to be a lot of talk and not too much action other than attempting to send monitoring missions about a month ago. Every time I say something like this, I get what do you suggest we do....as though there is no solution other than just letting stuff happen all around you and moaning about it.

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@revelette2,

revelette2 wrote:

I seriously doubt he went all the way over to Ukraine to merely explain why they aren't sharing information.

Okay. Then was another reason - perhaps really just a holiday/vacation through Europe.

revelette2 wrote:

In any case, didn't know the CIA was involved in regime change as part of their functions.

In Iran, the CIA carried out its first successful regime-change operation over half a century ago. Since those days, it seems to have been established as one of its purposes. (See for instance: Stephen Kinzer: All the Shah's Men - An American Coup and the Roots of Middle East Terror, New York, John Wiley and Sons, 2003.)

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@Walter Hinteler,

It just seems a lot of trouble to merely explain something that could easily be explained (if explanation is needed)in a letter, much less by the head of the CIA. Perhaps it has more to do with helping to set up the government or advise them on some things since that seems to be one of their functions.

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@revelette2,

revelette2 wrote:

Perhaps it has more to do with helping to set up the government or advise them on some things since that seems to be one of their functions.

Yes. That's exactly what I meant: one of the principal intelligence-gathering agencies of the United States' federal government helps to set up the Ukrainian government (the do have momentarily just a provisory one) or advises this provisory on some things.

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@Walter Hinteler,

So what was your other post about when said maybe they went over to explain why they wasn't sharing information? Just a way to get it in or something?

In any event, you are more than likely correct in that they are over there in some kind advisory mode. I take it that is a bad thing.

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@Walter Hinteler,

Did they include Great Britons part in it or just blame the U S of A which seems to be Europe's answer to all its problems.

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@RABEL222,

RABEL222 wrote:

Did they include Great Britons part in it or just blame the U S of A which seems to be Europe's answer to all its problems.

Blaming the USA for this cluster-**** in Ukraine seems highly appropriate, it was the USA that pushed the oligarchs to strongly align with Europe, thus stepping on Russia. The Ukrainians have no history of being independent enough for this move, nor do they have the ability to do it. The entire scheme was pure stupidity. The French who 15 years ago made it clear that they would not stand for Ukraine joining NATO, and the Germans more recently in trying to broker a deal to end this skirmish, were much more wise about what was possible.

Politics: the art of the possible. War: politics by other means.

I swear, the the current US administration is alarmingly ignorant on how power works.

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@RABEL222,

That book deals about the CIA.

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