31
   

COUP IN KYIV?

 
 
izzythepush
 
  1  
Reply Fri 14 Mar, 2014 05:01 am
I composed this response to a post by OMSigDavid about photo ID, which has subsequently gone.

I don't know David (if Crimeans will have photo ID), but the referendum is highly flawed and rushed. Compare it to the referendum on Scottish independence. The SNP won the mandate to hold a referendum in 2011. The referendum will not be held until 18th September this year. That's how long it takes to hold a legitimate referendum. It took them over a year before they could agree on the wording of the question. Then both the Yes and No camps have got to be allowed to make their case so the electorate can make an informed decision.

When the Scottish referendum is held, nobody will be able to doubt its legitimacy whatever the result is.
0 Replies
 
revelette2
 
  1  
Reply Fri 14 Mar, 2014 06:08 am
@Walter Hinteler,
Russia can't derail US exit from Afghanistan: general

Quote:
WASHINGTON: Russia would be unable to disrupt the US military's withdrawal from Afghanistan even if it cut off access to supply routes across its territory, a top US commander has said.

Amid rising tensions between Washington and Moscow over the crisis in Ukraine, the head of NATO-led forces in Afghanistan reassured lawmakers that Russia could not hold up a planned troop drawdown there.

"I'm absolutely confident we'll be able to" remove all US equipment on schedule, General Joseph Dunford told the Senate Armed Services Committee.

"Even if the Russians cut off one of the avenues?" Senator John McCain asked.

"Yes, senator," Dunford said. The general said that "we've got resilience in the system and I'm not concerned at all about a loss of the Russian northern distribution network, the Russian piece of that."

Dunford was referring to a network of road and rail routes that pass through Central Asia, the Caucasus and, in some cases, Russia. The primary supply routes for US forces in Afghanistan still run through Pakistan but the Pentagon set up the alternative channels through Central Asia after friction with Islamabad triggered border closures.

With the bulk of US and NATO forces due to withdraw by the end of the year, a major drawdown is under way and vast amounts of military hardware are being ferried out across the Pakistan border.

Roughly 40 percent of supplies are moving through the Pakistan roads at the moment, defense officials said.

President Barack Obama and lawmakers in Congress are threatening sanctions against Russia over its military intervention in Ukraine's Crimean peninsula, and European Union governments are also weighing possible punitive measures.

Lordyaswas
 
  1  
Reply Fri 14 Mar, 2014 06:22 am
Grosvenor Square is a bit busy at the moment.

Kerry's currently meeting Lavrov on British soil. All we need are the French, and it's just like old times.

The word is that Hague thinks no agreement soon, if at all, as Russia are not making any gestures to de-escalate things at all.
0 Replies
 
revelette2
 
  1  
Reply Fri 14 Mar, 2014 06:24 am
Russia ships troops into Ukraine, repeats invasion threat


Quote:
(Reuters) - Russia shipped more troops and armor into Crimea on Friday and repeated its threat to invade other parts of Ukraine, showing no sign of listening to Western pleas to back off from the worst confrontation since the Cold War.

Russia's stock markets tumbled and the cost of insuring its debt soared on the last day of trading before pro-Moscow authorities in Crimea hold a vote to join Russia, a move all but certain to lead to U.S. and EU sanctions on Monday.

The Russian Foreign Ministry, responding to the death of at least one protester in Ukraine's eastern city of Donetsk, repeated President Vladimir Putin's declaration of the right to invade to protect Russian citizens and "compatriots".

"Russia is aware of its responsibility for the lives of compatriots and fellow citizens in Ukraine and reserves the right to take people under its protection," it said.

Ukrainian health authorities say one 22-year-old man was stabbed to death and at least 15 others were being treated in hospital after clashes in Donetsk, the mainly Russian-speaking home city of Ukraine's ousted President Viktor Yanukovich.

Organizers of the anti-Moscow demonstration said the dead man was from their group.

Moscow denies that its forces are intervening in Crimea, an assertion Washington ridicules as "Putin's fiction". Journalists have seen Russian forces operating openly in their thousands over the past two weeks, driving in armored columns of vehicles with Russian license plates and identifying themselves to besieged Ukrainian troops as members of Russia's armed forces.

A Reuters reporting team watched a Russian warship unload trucks, troops and at least one armored personnel carrier at Kazachaya bay near Sevastopol on Friday morning. Trucks drove off a ramp from the Yamal 156, a large landing ship that can carry than 300 troops and up to a dozen APCs.

U.S. Secretary of State John Kerry was due to meet Russian Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov in London later on Friday in a last-ditch effort to head off the referendum in Crimea, now seen as all but inevitable.


0 Replies
 
JTT
 
  0  
Reply Fri 14 Mar, 2014 07:48 am
@Foofie,
Foof: Let's give credit, where credit is due.
/////////////

You are rather fond of genocide, Foof. To maintain yourself without hypocrisy, and hypocrisy is never you, you must now think that Hitler performed a grand deed.



0 Replies
 
JTT
 
  -1  
Reply Fri 14 Mar, 2014 07:53 am
@revelette2,
Even as the usa hypocritically berates Russia it says Russia can't derail usa's exit from its massive war crimes in Afghanistan.
Foofie
 
  0  
Reply Fri 14 Mar, 2014 08:16 am
@Walter Hinteler,
Walter Hinteler wrote:

Foofie wrote:
In my opinion, many of the European countries, regardless of the EU propaganda about being "Europeans," have a collective hubris about their respective country that is almost comical. The French, the Germans, the British, the Italians, the Spanish - ask one and you'd think their respective culture was God's gift to the world, in my opinion.
People who live in glass house shouldn't throw stones ...


But the U.S. culture is "god's gift to the world. Nyet?
0 Replies
 
Foofie
 
  0  
Reply Fri 14 Mar, 2014 08:16 am
@panzade,
panzade wrote:

I get a tingly feeling when a Jew discusses Scientific Racism.


Do you now?
0 Replies
 
Foofie
 
  0  
Reply Fri 14 Mar, 2014 08:20 am
@spendius,
spendius wrote:

You might not know Foof that GazProm is the main sponsor of the Champions League.

You might not also know that while our football teams are second rate in world football our Premier League broadcasts are the most watched around the world.

If a Chinese player is in one of the games it puts 50,000,000. or thereabouts, on the Chinese TV audience. An English player playing in China would do nothing here.

And you post in English. As more and more do. It's our style you see.


I know nothing about soccer.

I do enjoy the BBC productions, since the actors look like anyone that one might pass on the street. For me, it is a welcome respite from the eye candy on American tv. It is distracting from the plot, in my opinion.
0 Replies
 
revelette2
 
  2  
Reply Fri 14 Mar, 2014 08:24 am
@JTT,
I don't suppose you can look on the bright side and be glad that we are finally pulling out soon?

Despite what you think, we had a reason to go into Afghanistan, however, some of our actions there I disagree with as well. Drones seems to be kill innocent people too much from what I read and I think they should have been discontinued long since. Also, the situation in Gitmo should have been resolved long ago, either tried or let go, Obama should have and still could have went over congress's head in closing it. I also think the detainees should have more legal rights whether they are citizens or not. Obama has been every bit as hawkish as a conservative would have been in all these areas and I have surprised at it. So, yes there is a lot I agree with you about, but I don't agree it was wrong for us and NATO to be there in the first place.
JTT
 
  -1  
Reply Fri 14 Mar, 2014 08:31 am
@revelette2,
Rev: Despite what you think, we had a reason to go into Afghanistan, ...

And what was that reason, Rev?
Foofie
 
  0  
Reply Fri 14 Mar, 2014 08:31 am
@izzythepush,
izzythepush wrote:

You're the one who's fallen, and doesn't really understand what's going on. You don't seem to have learned the lessons of the 1930s.

America, Britain and Russia are all signatories of a treaty guaranteeing the territorial integrity of Ukraine.


Wasn't that Ukranian President, that is now in Russia, democratically elected? So, if enough citizens make a civil disturbance, ousting an elected President is acceptable? Russia might just be bringing law and order back to a segment of society that enjoys rioting?

The "lessons of the 1930's" might be that Hitler was democratically elected, yet made a mess out of Europe. Also, the "lessons of the 1930's" should have taught Brits that the idiosyncrasies of the Yankees came in handy, so as not to be invaded by the Nazis. Some people might not understand the concept of gratitude? Not you of course.
JTT
 
  -1  
Reply Fri 14 Mar, 2014 08:34 am
@izzythepush,
Can you say Iraq and Afghanistan, Foofie?
revelette2
 
  1  
Reply Fri 14 Mar, 2014 08:37 am
@JTT,
You know the reason, we've been over it, you disagreed as usual.
JTT
 
  -1  
Reply Fri 14 Mar, 2014 08:41 am
@revelette2,
"Reasons" are of no consequence, Rev, the invasion was the ultimate war crime, a war crime that saw Germans and Japanese hang for the same deeds. Do you consider "we are the equivalent of Hitler" to be a reason?
Walter Hinteler
 
  3  
Reply Fri 14 Mar, 2014 08:51 am
@Foofie,
Foofie wrote:
Wasn't that Ukranian President, that is now in Russia, democratically elected? So, if enough citizens make a civil disturbance, ousting an elected President is acceptable?
I don't know your news sources, but they are/were wrong: Ukrainian MPs had voted to oust President Viktor Yanukovych and hold early presidential elections on 25 May. (That happened on February 22, I think)

[And though this has nothing to do with this thread: the Enabling Act of 27 March 1933 made Hitler de facto (and de jure) a dictator.]
0 Replies
 
izzythepush
 
  2  
Reply Fri 14 Mar, 2014 09:23 am
@Foofie,
Not only was Yanukovych's presidency officially set to be dissolved by an election in May. (As a result of protesters being shot by snipers and beaten up.) Yanukovych signed an EU sponsored agreement that set everything out. He then did a moonlight flit with lots of Ukraine's money.

Just for one it would be nice if you bothered to educate yourself about what was going on before you started spouting gibberish.
revelette2
 
  1  
Reply Fri 14 Mar, 2014 09:51 am
@JTT,
It was not a war crime to invade Afghanistan. The war crimes commenced after the Bush administration redefined torture and allowed water boarding and other "harsher techniques" to be used against the detainees. I blame the Obama administration in brushing it all aside in effort not to waste time "going back."
izzythepush
 
  1  
Reply Fri 14 Mar, 2014 10:01 am
@revelette2,
The Spanish Inquisition considered Water Boarding torture, they thought it quite an effective form of torture.

I put JTT on ignore after he started making obscene comments about my daughter. I've not regretted it, or ever been tempted to peek at what he says. He always says the same thing anyway.
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  2  
Reply Fri 14 Mar, 2014 10:18 am
The talks in London ended without result:
Russia and west on collision course over Ukraine as talks fail in London

---

Olga Oliker, a senior Russia expert with the Rand Corporation in Washington, is quoted in a DW-report:
Quote:
"For the United States Ukraine is far from a vital interest.
For Europe and for Germany it is much more of one due to proximity, due to gas pipelines and due to just a much closer economic relationship with Russia.
For the United States it's a matter of principle and certainly Europe as a whole is a vital interest of the United States."


I'm in agreement with her view.
 

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