31
   

COUP IN KYIV?

 
 
Wilso
 
  1  
Reply Mon 10 Mar, 2014 04:53 am
@spendius,
spendius wrote:

Quote:
a typical reflex from Setanta


Setanta wants nothing to be simple Dave. It enables him to weave the wordy winds to wow wankers with a smattering of reading.

Lust for territory has a long track record.


Give it a rest you fuckwit. You've never formed a coherent sentence in your life. Crawl back into the pint glass you crawled out of.
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Mon 10 Mar, 2014 05:26 am
@Wilso,
Are your piles burning today Wilso?
0 Replies
 
revelette2
 
  1  
Reply Mon 10 Mar, 2014 06:00 am
Ukraine seeks US help after Putin talks tough on Crimea

Russia's oligarchs throw their weight behind Kiev's revolutionary rulers
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  2  
Reply Mon 10 Mar, 2014 06:00 am
@Setanta,
Setanta wrote:
The Black Sea fleet and its home base were never out of Russian control.
Sevastoplol was actually not part of the Ukrainian Soviet Socialist Republic: it was a "closed city" and, like the other bases on Crimea, directly subordinate to the central Russian SFSR.
Setanta
 
  2  
Reply Mon 10 Mar, 2014 09:19 am
@Walter Hinteler,
No surprises there, huh?
0 Replies
 
JTT
 
  1  
Reply Mon 10 Mar, 2014 09:23 am
@hawkeye10,
"events in Ukraine should be a wake-up call to those on both sides of the aisle who believe that the United States should eschew the responsibilities of leadership"

A god damn war criminal posturing about responsible leadership. Oh the irony!
0 Replies
 
izzythepush
 
  1  
Reply Mon 10 Mar, 2014 09:31 am
The latest, quite disturbing news. Putin looks like he's eyeing up Eastern Ukraine.

Quote:
Russia has condemned "lawlessness" in eastern Ukraine, blaming far-right militants for "conniving" with the new authorities in Kiev.

In a statement, the Russian foreign ministry said masked men fired on and injured peaceful protesters last week.

It also accused Ukraine of not being committed to media freedoms after seven Russian journalists were detained.

Ukraine and the West accuse Russia of using blatant propaganda to justify troop deployments in Ukraine's Crimea.

They have also accused Moscow of stoking unrest in south-eastern Ukraine - a claim denied by the Kremlin.

On Sunday, tens of thousands of people across Ukraine held rival pro-unity and pro-Russian rallies.

In Sevastopol, Crimea, pro-Moscow groups beat up pro-Ukrainian activists, a BBC correspondent at the scene reported.

They came as Moscow is continuing to strengthen its grip on Crimea before a secession referendum in Ukraine's southern region on 16 March.

'Shameful silence'

In the statement on Monday, the Russian foreign ministry said the "well-equipped" gunmen opened fire on "peaceful protesters" in the eastern city of Kharkiv on 8 March.
The city has recently witnessed mass rival rallies, some of which were violent.

However, local Kharkiv police say they are treating the alleged shooting as a minor incident, according to Reuters.

The Russian statement also said the seven Russian journalists had been detained by police in Dnipropetrovsk, also in the east, who accused them of being interested only in "separate provocative stories".

"The Ukrainian authorities, in violation of all existing bilateral treaties, are not letting Russian citizens into the territory of Ukraine," the statement added.

And it also voiced Moscow's surprise over "the shameful silence of our Western partners, human rights groups and foreign media".

Ukraine has in the past firmly denied similar Russian allegations, instead accusing Moscow of distorting facts to justify its continuing military presence in Crimea.

Kiev points out that monitors of the Organization for Security and Co-operation in Europe have recently been prevented by pro-Russian militia groups from entering Crimea and a number of journalists have been beaten up by militias in the autonomous region.
Russian President Vladimir Putin insisted he has the right to protect Russian interests and the rights of ethnic Russians there.

On Sunday, he also defended the moves by Crimea's authorities to stage the referendum on 16 March. Mr Putin said "the steps taken by Crimea's legitimate authorities are based on international law".

However, German Chancellor Angela Merkel told him in a phone call that she considered the vote illegal.

Both EU leaders and the US have warned Moscow they would slap even tougher sanctions if Russian troops remained in Crimea.

Unrest in Ukraine erupted in November after former President Viktor Yanukovych's last-minute rejection of a landmark EU deal in favour of a bailout from Russia.

Mr Yanukovych was ousted last month, and a new government has been voted in by the Ukrainian parliament

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-26515049
JTT
 
  1  
Reply Mon 10 Mar, 2014 09:37 am
@izzythepush,
Both EU leaders and the US have warned Moscow they would slap even tougher sanctions if Russian troops remained in Crimea.
//////////

How come sanctions are never put on the USA or the UK? Why does the USA continue to get away with its 60 years of terrorism against Korea and Cuba?
0 Replies
 
revelette2
 
  1  
Reply Mon 10 Mar, 2014 09:53 am
@hawkeye10,
So tell me Mr. Wizard, what was Condi's excuse when Putin invaded Georgia when Bush was in office?

Bush’s Defense Secretary Destroys GOP Talking Points Against Obama’s Handling Of Crimea

Quote:


Former Defense Secretary Robert Gates pushed back on Sunday against conservatives who’ve blamed President Obama’s “weak” foreign policy for Russian President Vladimir Putin’s decision to invade Crimea.

Appearing on Fox News Sunday, Gates dismissed arguments that Obama’s handling of the conflict in Syria or his efforts to trim the defense budget emboldened Putin, arguing that the Russian president also invaded Georgia during the George W. Bush administration.

“My own view is, after all, Putin invaded Georgia when George W. Bush was president. Nobody ever accused George W. Bush of being weak or unwilling to use military force,” Gates, who served as Defense Secretary for Presidents George W. Bush and Obama said. “So I think Putin is very opportunistic in these arenas. I think that even if — even if we had launched attacks in Syria, even if we weren’t cutting our defense budget — I think Putin saw an opportunity here in Crimea, and he has seized it.” Earlier this week, Gates told the Washington Post that the GOP lawmakers should “tone down” their criticism and “try to be supportive of the president rather than natter at the president.”

Though most Republicans agree with Obama’s policy for handling the Crimean crisis, some conservatives have argued that Obama’s perceived “weakness” on the global stage has given Putin the space to move Russian troops into Crimea. “We have a weak and indecisive president” and that “invites aggression,” Sen. Lindsey Graham (R-SC) said last week. “Putin is playing chess and I think we’re playing marbles,” Rep. Mike Rogers (R-MI), the chairman of the House Intelligence Committee claimed, adding that Russia is “running circles around us.”

During his appearance, Gates also dismissed criticism of Obama’s weekend vacation. “I’ve seen this happen year after year, president after president. President takes a day or two off and plays golf. Doesn’t matter whether it’s President Obama or the first President Bush going fishing. I think you’ve got to give these guys a little time off, you know, mostly they are working 20 hours a day.”

Gates said he does not believe that “Crimea will slip out of Russia’s hand.” “I think it’s part of a long-term strategy on Putin’s part to create a Russian sphere of influence, a Russian bloc,” he explained. “I don’t think he will stop in Ukraine until there is essentially a pro-Russian government in Ukraine, in Kiev.”



izzythepush
 
  1  
Reply Mon 10 Mar, 2014 12:13 pm
The latest.
Quote:
Nato is to deploy reconnaissance planes in Poland and Romania to monitor the Ukrainian crisis.

It gave the go-ahead for the flights on Monday, a Nato spokesman said.

"All Awacs [Airborne Warning and Control System] reconnaissance flights will take place solely over alliance territory," the official said.

It comes as Russia cements its control of Ukraine's Crimea ahead of Sunday's referendum to join Russia. Ukraine and the West say this is illegal.

In the latest move on Monday, armed men - said to be Russian troops and local militias - seized a military hospital in Crimea.

The attackers marched into the hospital in the regional capital Simferopol, threatening staff and some 30 patients.

Pro-Russian troops are also blockading Ukrainian troops across Crimea.

Moscow has officially denied that its troops are taking part in the blockades, describing the armed men with no insignia as Crimea's "self-defence" forces.

The government in Kiev - as well as the US and EU - accuse Russia of invading Ukraine, in violation of international law.

Nato said the surveillance flights would "enhance the alliance's situational awareness".

Last week, the organisation said it was reviewing all co-operation with Russia and stepping up its engagement with the government in Kiev.

Unrest in Ukraine erupted in November after former President Viktor Yanukovych's last-minute rejection of a landmark EU deal in favour of a bailout from Russia.

Mr Yanukovych was ousted last month, and a new government has been voted in by the Ukrainian parliament which Russia says was a "coup".


http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-26521311
JTT
 
  1  
Reply Mon 10 Mar, 2014 12:35 pm
@revelette2,
The land of the brave is great at attacking defenceless poor countries, Rev. That same land of the free is also great at enslaving defenceless poor.

If there was some good reason for all this but it's just simple rapacious greed! As if the USA doesn't already have enough. Don't you think that is rather sickening?

Don't you think it's high time y'all held your governments to account. They have been making a mockery of supposed USA standards for far too long.

Where the **** is the government by the sheeple?
0 Replies
 
JTT
 
  0  
Reply Mon 10 Mar, 2014 12:38 pm
@izzythepush,
It comes as Russia cements its control of Ukraine's Crimea ahead of Sunday's referendum to join Russia. Ukraine and the West say this is illegal.
//////

Perhaps this might be an opportune moment to raise the issue of Guantanamo. Or Korea or Guatemala or Cuba or ... .
0 Replies
 
JTT
 
  0  
Reply Mon 10 Mar, 2014 12:41 pm
@izzythepush,
This will be named "Operation More USA Bullshit" because they have run out of hokey names.
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  2  
Reply Mon 10 Mar, 2014 01:10 pm
Ukraine crisis: With no orders from Kiev, the besieged forces in Crimea are starting to feel let down
Quote:

The headquarters were surrounded again, by a far larger contingent than before. Some of the separatists wore mismatched uniforms and carried Kalashnikovs; all wore the red, white and blue emblem of the newly formed Crimean army bearing the motto “Prosperity Lies in Unity”.

But it is the spectre of division that is haunting the Ukrainian military here as Crimea prepares to break away and come under the rule of the Kremlin. At least a few of those laying siege to the most important operational base in the state capital, Simferopol, are former Ukrainian personnel who defected to the separatist side.

The forces of the Ukrainian government have, so far, shown astonishing bravery and resilience against far larger and better armed Russian troops. They have also resisted intimidation from the strutting "Self Defence Guards", or Soma Barona, of Russian nationalists. But now a slow trickle of soldiers has begun to change sides; and one reason for them doing so is the feeling that they have been abandoned by Kiev.

The government there, the complaint goes, has been only too ready with tough words; but that is as far as it goes.

One of the enduring images of defiance against Moscow's might was that of Colonel Yuli Mamchuk marching his men up the hill at Belbek airbase to demand the return of facilities seized. They kept going forward, unarmed, singing the national anthem, after the Russians fired warning shots.

The example has been followed across the state; other bases have refused to surrender, remaining awkward thorns as the Kremlin closes its fist over Crimea. In a remarkable display of sangfroid, the Ukrainians, more often aviation technicians than soldiers, played football as the Russians, including Spetznatz special forces, posted marksmen and brought up armoured personnel carriers.

But, as the redoubtable Colonel Mamchuk continued negotiations, facing yet another threat of attack unless he surrendered the part of the base he still held, something happened which illustrated that they could expect no practical support in their stance. A call came on his mobile telephone. It was one of the senior officials in Kiev. What were the instructions? "They just kept asking me to use my own initiative. That has been the case ever since the Russians arrived here. So we really are on our own here," the Colonel told me.
... ... ...
revelette2
 
  1  
Reply Mon 10 Mar, 2014 01:27 pm
@Walter Hinteler,
While it is disappointing the Kiev government is not doing anything at all to help their own fighters (disgraceful really) it is pretty heroic the Ukraine fighters are fighting such a huge enemy by basically just not standing down. I fear it won't last, but if the Kremlin starts shooting them down, there is no denying it.
izzythepush
 
  2  
Reply Mon 10 Mar, 2014 02:06 pm
@revelette2,
revelette2 wrote:

While it is disappointing the Kiev government is not doing anything at all to help their own fighters (disgraceful really)


What would you suggest they do, give Putin the excuse he needs to invade the rest of Ukraine?
Walter Hinteler
 
  2  
Reply Mon 10 Mar, 2014 03:05 pm
@izzythepush,
An uncomplete summary from the agencies:

Russia said today that it cannot accept the “fait accompli” of the new Western-backed government in Ukraine and was preparing diplomatic counterproposals to serve “the interests of all Ukrainians,” even as Russian forces strengthened their control over Crimea, less than a week before a contentious referendum on the future of that southern Ukrainian region.

Russian Foreign Minister Lavrov said that proposals made by U.S. Secretary of State John Kerry “did not completely satisfy us” because they used “the situation created by the coup as a starting point.” He told Putin that Kerry had delayed a visit to Moscow and that Russia was working on new proposals of its own.

The Ukrainian foreign minister, Andriy Deshchytsya, received his counterparts from Belgium, the Netherlands and Luxembourg, who had come Monday to show support.
“We have to admit that our life now is almost like a war,” he said. “We have to cope with an aggression that we do not understand.”

According to Russian media, former President Yanukovych will make a public statement Tuesday in Rostov-on-Don, in southern Russia, where he has sought Russian protection.

Germany has so far not succeeded in budging Moscow in any clear way.
“We can see that time is really very pressing,” Steffen Seibert, a spokesman for the German government, said in Berlin on Monday, one day after Chancellor Angela Merkel again called Putin and urged him to facilitate the creation of a contact group to bring Russia and Ukraine into talks.
“There can be no playing for time,” Seibert said at a news conference. “We are expecting concrete steps for the development of a contact group.

The Russian Foreign Ministry said in a statement that lawlessness now rules in eastern Ukraine as a result of extreme rightists “with the full connivance” of the Kiev authorities.
The statement claimed that masked men had fired on and injured peaceful protesters last week in Kharkiv. Ukraine has said that Russia is fabricating such charges as part of a propaganda campaign to destabilize the Kiev government and justify possible new military action in the east. Kharkiv police said that they are treating the alleged shooting as a minor incident, according to Reuters.

Kiev has been working to reassert its control over the cities of the east. In Lugansk, the capital of a coal-mining region that borders Russia, police freed a regional administration headquarters, which had been captured by pro-Russian demonstrators Sunday, and briefly arrested their leader, Arsen Klinchayev, a local councilman.
Oleg Lyashko, a far-right member of the Kiev government who flew to Lugansk to break the siege, released a video of himself and several supporters arresting Klinchayev and violently interrogating him before later handing him over to police.

In Kiev, Mikhail Khodorkovsky, the wealthy Russian businessman and dissident who was jailed for a decade until December, said that the struggle over Crimea had importance for Europe and the world.
He said Crimea should remain part of Ukraine but with broad autonomy akin to Scotland in the United Kingdom.

Western officials will meet in London on tomorrow to identify Russians who will be subject to asset freezes and travel bans that officials hope will persuade Moscow to withdraw its presence from Crimea.

... ... ... ... ...
0 Replies
 
revelette2
 
  1  
Reply Mon 10 Mar, 2014 03:08 pm
@izzythepush,
I expect them to tell the people who got them there something other than to basically figure it out yourself when they are asked what should they do, surrender or not.
izzythepush
 
  1  
Reply Mon 10 Mar, 2014 03:42 pm
@revelette2,
It's very easy to sit in judgement when you're safe at the other side of the Atlantic.
revelette2
 
  2  
Reply Mon 10 Mar, 2014 03:50 pm
@izzythepush,
A good point, however, I was only sitting in judgment, it was the fighters under the Kiev government who were saying they were on their own. Part of being a leader is, well, leading.
 

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