31
   

COUP IN KYIV?

 
 
hawkeye10
 
  -1  
Reply Fri 7 Mar, 2014 06:02 pm
@InfraBlue,
Quote:
I was wondering what was China's take on all of this.


here you go:

Quote:
, China’s Xinhua government news agency printed a March 7 editorial backing the Russian move.

“Russian military personnel [are] deployed in eastern Ukraine to protect Russia’s legitimate interests and pro-Russian regions [are] clamoring for a secession from Kiev,” said the editorial, which blamed the crisis on secret western plots that caused the collapse last month of the corrupt, pro-Russian president.

“The West’s strategy for installing a so-called democratic and pro-Western Ukrainian government did not get anywhere at all… [and] Russian leaders once again proved their credibility and shrewdness in planning and executing effective counter moves.” said the editorial.



Read more: http://dailycaller.com/2014/03/07/china-applauds-as-putin-rebuffs-obama-on-crimea/#ixzz2vKCZO3Tr
0 Replies
 
hawkeye10
 
  -1  
Reply Fri 7 Mar, 2014 06:05 pm
Obama is quite the rube

Quote:
Which leads to President Obama, who has responded to the aggression by imposing sanctions—a cliché of foreign policy that usually has no effect, but in this case will almost certainly make things worse.

Sanctions only work (and, even then, rarely) when they are universal, when they truly hurt the regime being targeted, and when they coincide with—or prompt—political change. Russia fits none of these categories. Too many European nations are too dependent on Russian gas supplies or bank deposits to make sanctions bite or endure. None of the sanctions under discussion are knockout blows; no conceivable sanctions would compel Putin (or any Russian leader) to surrender Ukraine. And regime change in Moscow is hardly on the horizon


http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/war_stories/2014/03/barack_obama_vladimir_putin_and_ukraine_the_president_has_bungled_his_dealings.html

Of course with Obama it is all about the "optics"....getting anything done is neither here nor there....
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Fri 7 Mar, 2014 06:08 pm
@hawkeye10,
I don't know, hawk, if there is anything to do except grin and bear it.
hawkeye10
 
  0  
Reply Fri 7 Mar, 2014 06:17 pm
@spendius,
spendius wrote:

I don't know, hawk, if there is anything to do except grin and bear it.


here is a guy who suggest the smart move is to cave in to Putin

Quote:
I'm afraid Crimea as part of Ukraine has been lost at this point. It's now about preventing Ukraine from splitting into a pro-European West and pro-Russian East. The conflict in Crimea is going to remain unresolved for years. There are multiple conflicts in Europe that linger on in this way, such as Cyprus, Kosovo, Abkhazia and Ossetia. Circumstances are of course different, but diplomats managed somehow to contain these conflicts to make them manageable.
Giving in might be the way to go
The situation in Crimea would only change if Western states opted to send troops on a grand scale. But no one wants to risk a direct passage of arms with a nuclear power like Russia. That of course is not news to Putin - that's why he can relax, sit back and watch emergency summits and stern statements from afar.
I myself have experienced the Cold War - its bloc mentality which paralyzed everything and dictated the way how the world was perceived. After the fall of the Berlin Wall and the collapse of the Soviet Union, people in Europe had hoped the Cold War was over. It really got me thinking how quickly we are resorting back to those times.
It's not just about Crimea; we are in the middle of a European crisis - maybe one of the worst in decades. This new confrontation could have global implications, since Russia, the US and the EU should be working hand in hand to solve issues like Iran's nuclear program, the war in Syria and decide on how to contain North Korea.
Is it really possible that the hands of time were turned back 25 years after the fall of the Berlin Wall geopolitically speaking? No, the Europeans should bring themselves to massage Putin's ego by inviting him to a super summit to debate the conflict in Crimea as well as Ukraine's future. Giving in might be the only way to prevent worse consequences from happening.


http://www.dw.de/opinion-preventing-the-worst/a-17480634
panzade
 
  2  
Reply Fri 7 Mar, 2014 06:21 pm
@hawkeye10,
Quote:
Obama is quite the rube

Apologies. I missed the post where you.spelled out his options. Can you re-post?
0 Replies
 
JTT
 
  0  
Reply Fri 7 Mar, 2014 08:30 pm
@revelette2,
serving the US-led (war) illegal invasion of Afghanistan code-named Operation End-uring Freedom.
//////////////

The USA always makes up such hokey names, all part of the propaganda stream. Here the inadvertent hyphen describes a real apt name - Operation End Freedom.

How many innocents did the USA slaughter in Afghanistan, Rev?
0 Replies
 
JTT
 
  0  
Reply Fri 7 Mar, 2014 08:35 pm
@Walter Hinteler,
"Let them eat caviar!"
0 Replies
 
JTT
 
  0  
Reply Fri 7 Mar, 2014 08:42 pm
@hawkeye10,
Same deal when the USA under Reagan, except that Reagan was slaughtering innocents by the thousand. I don't recall the media or Americans getting their panties in a bunch over that genocide, do you, Hawk?
0 Replies
 
JTT
 
  0  
Reply Fri 7 Mar, 2014 08:47 pm
@izzythepush,
Izzy: that's the problem, it's easy letting irregular militias off the lead, it's a lot harder calling them to heel. Putin has opened a real can of worms.

//////////

Do you remember that can of worms from when Thatcher the bitch aided the USA in creating death lists in Indonesia, Izzy?

I don't recall that humongous genocide causing much of a stir at all. Do you, Iz, Lordy, Setanta, ... ?
0 Replies
 
JTT
 
  0  
Reply Fri 7 Mar, 2014 08:50 pm
@hawkeye10,
like Iran's nuclear program, the war in Syria and decide on how to contain North Korea.
////////

Containment for those countries is not what is needed. None of them have illegally invaded other countries.
0 Replies
 
hawkeye10
 
  0  
Reply Sat 8 Mar, 2014 01:03 am
Quote:
"Trying to bring Georgia and Ukraine into NATO was truly overreaching . The roots of the Russian Empire trace back to Kiev in the ninth century, so that was a monumental provocation. Were the Europeans, much less the Americans, willing to send their sons and daughters to defend Ukraine or Georgia? Hardly. So NATO expansion was a political act, not a carefully considered military commitment, thus undermining the purpose of the alliance and recklessly ignoring what the Russians considered their own vital national interests."


Duty By Robert Gates page 157
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Sat 8 Mar, 2014 01:42 am
How's the reaction in the other countries of the former USSR?

Edginess and a reluctance to rattle Russia's cage in former Soviet republics
Quote:
http://i1334.photobucket.com/albums/w641/Walter_Hinteler/a_zpsd156d61d.jpg
Russia's takeover of the Crimean peninsula has drawn condemnation from the west, but reaction has been more varied in the 14 former Soviet republics in Russia's "near abroad". Many have played a balancing act between Russia and the west, and almost all have significant Russian-speaking populations – like the one that served as a justification for Moscow's intervention in Crimea.
0 Replies
 
izzythepush
 
  1  
Reply Sat 8 Mar, 2014 02:53 am
@hawkeye10,
Dubya tried to bring Georgia into NATO, not Obama. Ukraine was never going to be part of the EU, let alone NATO. This all kicked off over trade relations with the EU.

Try sticking to the facts.
0 Replies
 
izzythepush
 
  1  
Reply Sat 8 Mar, 2014 02:57 am
Quote:

http://news.bbcimg.co.uk/media/images/73446000/jpg/_73446579_73446578.jpg

Is this the same woman? Some social media users in Ukraine seem to think so.

The woman has appeared in interviews in cities across Ukraine under different names, spreading an anti-protest and pro-Russian message. It's led to a deluge of videos and pictures being shared on social media platforms as people try to spot the woman.


http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/blogs-trending-26491349
izzythepush
 
  1  
Reply Sat 8 Mar, 2014 03:22 am
@izzythepush,
Quote:
But how justified is the confidence of the Crimean authorities that people here want to change country?

At demonstrations like the one outside the parliament, there is a clear nationalist fervour. "We want to go to Russia", says one student "not the European Union. Russians are our sisters and brothers - and this is a great idea."

It is a widely-held view among the ethnic Russian majority here, who have staged daily pro-Russia protests against what they call the "fascists and nationalists" who have taken power in Kiev. Many Ukrainian Russians feel threatened by the revolution, fearful that Ukraine's new westward trajectory threatens their language and identity.

But in over a week of reporting from Crimea, I've spoken to countless Russians who feel differently - favouring greater autonomy within Ukraine, rather than wanting to switch country.

Among them are Lena and her family - ethnic Russians who welcome me to their apartment in Simferopol, their one-year-old son plays at our feet. They are determined he should grow up a Ukrainian citizen.

"I feel sad and disappointed by this move", Lena says. "Crimea is my homeland. I would not be happy to live in Russia - it's a foreign country for me."

Her husband Dima would also vote no in the referendum. But, he tells me, the problem is that Crimea is still searching for its identity. "I'm Russian but not a citizen of the Russian federation. We are different people," he says. "I want to feel Crimean, but even when I type it on my computer, my spellchecker underlines it like it's not the right word."

Crimean Russians are split, perhaps by generation. Lena's mother, Irina, remembers 1954, when Crimea was given to Ukraine by the former Soviet leader Khruschev in a move that many here still resent. "I would vote yes in a referendum", she says. "Crimea has always been a Russian land and I don't have any emotional bonds with Ukraine."

Aside from the Russians, there is a sizeable community of ethnic Ukrainians and Crimean Tatars, who together make up around 40% of the population. They would both certainly reject changing nationality.

The Tatars were deported by Stalin to Central Asia in 1944, as punishment for alleged collaboration with the Nazis by some. Many died, and even after some eventually returned, they remained fiercely anti-Russian.

And that is the problem here. Within this small, rugged peninsula, the divisions are so deep that nothing can satisfy everyone.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-26486289
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Sat 8 Mar, 2014 03:45 am
@izzythepush,
Reported in the New York Times:
Russia’s Move Into Ukraine Said to Be Born in Shadows

Quote:
MOSCOW — The day after he returned from the Winter Olympics, President Vladimir V. Putin of Russia gathered the 12 members of his national security council for a crisis meeting to manage a political implosion in Ukraine that, by all accounts, had surprised Russia’s political and military elite and, above all, infuriated Mr. Putin himself.

One prominent member of the council, Valentina I. Matviyenko, chairwoman of the upper house of Parliament, emerged from the meeting declaring that it was impossible that Russia would invade Crimea, yet a couple of days later Russian troops were streaming into the peninsula.
[...]
An examination of the seismic events that set off the most threatening East-West confrontation since the Cold War era, based on Mr. Putin’s public remarks and interviews with officials, diplomats and analysts here, suggests that the Kremlin’s strategy emerged haphazardly, even misleadingly, over a tense and momentous week, as an emotional Mr. Putin acted out of what the officials described as a deep sense of betrayal and grievance, especially toward the United States and Europe.

... ... ...
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Sat 8 Mar, 2014 04:50 am
@Walter Hinteler,
China’s Foreign Minister Wang Yi called for calm and restraint and urged all parties to keep in mind the fundamental interests of all ethnic communities in Ukraine and interests of regional peace and stability.
China has said it will not interfere in what it considers an internal affair and that it respects the Ukrainian people’s decisions, according to Reuters.

Wang said:

The priority now is to exercise calm and restraint and prevent further escalation of the situation. It is regrettable that the situation in Ukraine has come to what it is today, yet it is not by accident that the situation has reached this point.
The more complex the problem, the more necessary for it to be handled in a prudent way. China is in communication with various parties and we will play China’s constructive role in bringing about a political settlement of the Ukraine issue.
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Sat 8 Mar, 2014 05:34 am
@Walter Hinteler,
Quote:
Dymytro Yarosh, the leader of the Ukrainian nationalist Right Sector party has declared his intention of running for president. Yarosh and his party are described by opponents as neo-Nazis and their activities have been used as part of the justification for Russia’s intervention in Crimea.

At a press conference he apologised for the tight security but said he had information that Moscow has sent an assassination squad to kill him.

He said that his group was not xenophobic or anti-semitic and included members from all minorities. He said that the Ukrainian should be the language of the state but that should not effect what language people speak privately.
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Sat 8 Mar, 2014 07:32 am
@Walter Hinteler,
AP reports that warning shots were fired at OSCE observers when they tried to enter Crimea.
revelette2
 
  1  
Reply Sat 8 Mar, 2014 07:45 am
@Walter Hinteler,
I am not very surprised. Russia has no intention of allowing the observers to enter Crimea.
0 Replies
 
 

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