31
   

COUP IN KYIV?

 
 
Lordyaswas
 
  2  
Reply Fri 7 Mar, 2014 03:13 am
@Walter Hinteler,
"Secondly, "we" have to define our own goals...."

Uninterrupted standard price gas supply.


"and then decide what "we" are willing to pay for those."

Crimea, and assurances to Russia that Ukraine will not join the EU or NATO.
We will then have to placate Ukraine by offering financial aid.


This is one chess game that we're not going to even come close to winning.
What we all need to do is learn from this and prepare ourselves accordingly for the next time.

Energy independence is the first step.



izzythepush
 
  1  
Reply Fri 7 Mar, 2014 03:20 am
@Lordyaswas,
Even if we do all of that it could come back to bite us on the arse. The Tartars feel threatened by Russia, they were persecuted by Stalin. They're a substantial Moslem minority. Look at Chechnya, Chechens were behind the Boston bombings, and are leading members in Al Qaida affiliated groups in Syria, Afghanistan and Iraq.
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Fri 7 Mar, 2014 03:49 am
@Walter Hinteler,
The Conservative Political Action Conference seems to have been a "lively pro-cold-war-party" Shocked
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  2  
Reply Fri 7 Mar, 2014 03:54 am
"No comment"

http://i1334.photobucket.com/albums/w641/Walter_Hinteler/a_zpsb5f9513e.jpg
#putin #russland #ukraine #westen #obama #merkel #cameron #hollande pic.twitter.com/DSZIZtunwW
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Fri 7 Mar, 2014 05:35 am
Moody's: Gazprom's exposure to possible follow-on impact of Ukrainian crisis, while substantial, is manageable at this time

Quote:
Moody's Investors Service has today said that OJSC Gazprom's (Baa1/stable outlook) strong operating and financial metrics currently allow sufficient headroom to mitigate the negative effects from even a relatively significant interruption or disruption to its gas exports. That said, Gazprom has a greater exposure to the Ukrainian economy and its political risks than other Russian corporates, with 52% of the company's exports to Europe currently routed through Ukraine and the country contributing up to 8% of Gazprom's revenues. ... ... ...
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  2  
Reply Fri 7 Mar, 2014 05:44 am
@izzythepush,
I do think, too, that the (possible) reaction of the Tartars it is widely underestimated.

The Tartars actually owned Crimean at one time ...
http://i1334.photobucket.com/albums/w641/Walter_Hinteler/a_zps0497653a.jpg
Quote:
After the destruction of the Mongolian Golden Horde by Timur in 1441, the Crimean Tatars founded an independent Crimean Khanate under Hacı I Giray, a descendant of Genghis Khan who was Mongol leader. He and his successors reigned first at Qırq Yer, and from the beginning of the 15th century, at Bakhchisaray.
[...]
In 1783, the entire Crimea was annexed by the Russian Empire.
From wikipedia
izzythepush
 
  2  
Reply Fri 7 Mar, 2014 05:50 am
@Walter Hinteler,
Agreed, if pro Russian, Crimean irregulars start throwing their weight about, with Tatars and Ukrainians, the consequences could be felt all over the World.
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Fri 7 Mar, 2014 06:32 am
@izzythepush,
According to Ukrainian border police, now there are up to 30,000 Russian troops in/on Crimea - before, 16,000 were reported.

Reuters quoted Serhiy Astakhov, an aide to the head of the border guards service, as giving the estimate. This includes members of Russia’s Black Sea fleet, permanently based in of Sevastopol, as well as newly-arrived forces.
JTT
 
  -1  
Reply Fri 7 Mar, 2014 06:45 am
@Walter Hinteler,
According to Ukrainian border police, now there are up to 30,000 Russian troops in/on Crimea - before, 16,000 were reported.
///////

Well, they were promised, "Join the military and see the world". Next stop New York.
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Fri 7 Mar, 2014 08:04 am

A team of OSCE observers has been prevented for a second day from entering Crimea by unidentified armed men, AFP says. They were stopped at a checkpoint blocking a road. The OSCE tried twice yesterday to pass into Crimea but were turned away both times.

http://i1334.photobucket.com/albums/w641/Walter_Hinteler/a_zps3459b9b3.jpg
revelette2
 
  1  
Reply Fri 7 Mar, 2014 08:31 am
@Walter Hinteler,
America is closing air force base in pro-Moscow Kyrgyzstan

A US Air Force base in Kyrgyzstan is packing up for closure after more than 12 years of flying troops and cargo in and out of Afghanistan, as Moscow boosts its military clout in the strategic region.

The Manas Transit Centre in the ex-Soviet nation’s main civilian airport has been in operation since the end of 2001, serving the US-led war in Afghanistan code-named Operation End-uring Freedom.

As Kyrgyzstan seeks closer political ties and economic aid from its ex-Soviet overlord Russia, the national Parliament last June gave Washington until July 2014 to close its base.

The logistics hub, employing some 1,200 servicemen, was engaged in aerial refuelling, personnel and cargo airlift, as well in humanitarian programmes with Kyrgyzstan.

“As of February 28, those four main missions had been completed, and now our main focus is on orderly and clean transfer of the transit centre back to the government of Kyrgyzstan,” said Colonel John Millard, commander of the 376th Air Expeditionary Wing and Manas base head. During more than 12 years of operations, the Manas base near the Kyrgyz capital Bishkek handled more than 33,000 refuelling missions, moved more than 5.3 million servicemen in and out of Afghanistan and served 42,000 cargo missions, Millard said.

Personnel and cargo airlift missions have now been moved to Forward Operating Site Mihail Kogalniceanu near the Black Sea port of Constanta in Romania.

In the wake of the September 11, 2001 plane attacks on US cities, Moscow said it had no objections to the US and its allies using Central Asia for deployment and transit of troops and cargo to neighbouring Afghanistan.

But the Kremlin has since become wary of the foreign military presence in its former imperial backyard.

Kyrgyzstan, a mainly Muslim nation of 5.5 million, remains poor and volatile after violent revolts that have deposed two presidents since 2005. It lies on a drug-trafficking route out of Afghanistan and next door to China, which is boosting its economic ties with resource-rich Central Asia.(Reuters)

After his election in 2011, Kyrgyz President Almazbek Atambayev assured Moscow the US air base would be shut. In December 2012 he ratified a deal leasing the base to Russia for 15 years from January 2017, after Moscow agreed to write off some $500 million of Kyrgyz debts. The agreement can be automatically extended for five years after its expiry.

Neighbouring Tajikistan also receives Russian economic aid and ratified a deal in October to extend by three decades Moscow’s military presence on its land, which may face security threats after Nato troops leave Afghanistan by the end of 2014.

In Kyrgyzstan, Russia operates four installations, including the Kant airbase near the capital Bishkek and a naval test site at Lake Issyk Kul in the Tien Shan mountains.

Several fighter aircraft and helicopters are deployed at Kant, a Soviet-era airfield east of Bishkek. Russian Defence Minister Sergei Shoigu has said Moscow plans to send a unit of modernised Su-25SM fighter-bombers to Kant this year.
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Fri 7 Mar, 2014 09:02 am
@revelette2,
Kyrgyzstan is not a NATO-country (nor a EU-country, it's located in Central Asia and of course no member of the OSCE either) like the Baltic States.

(The 2010 South Kyrgyzstan ethnic clashes could be a different topic, though.)
Foofie
 
  0  
Reply Fri 7 Mar, 2014 09:06 am
@izzythepush,
izzythepush wrote:

How else would you describe giving Putin everything he wanted with no consequences whatsoever?


Ask yourself why the news media is pretending Putin is the author of all decisions. In my opinion, because the news media does not want to inflame the masses, on both sides of the issue, with demonizing Russia. In my opinion, that is really very telling; in effect, in my opinion, it is as though it has been decided to give Putin all the credit, so Russia can wriggle one way or another by putting in a different "author" at some later date. It is just good theatre.

0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Fri 7 Mar, 2014 09:12 am
@Walter Hinteler,
http://i1334.photobucket.com/albums/w641/Walter_Hinteler/a_zps27b77068.jpg
Foofie
 
  1  
Reply Fri 7 Mar, 2014 09:12 am
@izzythepush,
izzythepush wrote:

Even if we do all of that it could come back to bite us on the arse. The Tartars feel threatened by Russia, they were persecuted by Stalin. They're a substantial Moslem minority. Look at Chechnya, Chechens were behind the Boston bombings, and are leading members in Al Qaida affiliated groups in Syria, Afghanistan and Iraq.


I say "Tatars"; you say "Tarters." I say "tomato"; you say "tomahto." Let's call the whole thing off. [Foofie continues singing.]
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Fri 7 Mar, 2014 09:15 am
@Foofie,
Quote:
Definition of TARTAR

1 capitalized : a native or inhabitant of Tartary
[...]
Origin of TARTAR
Middle English Tartre, from Middle French Tartare, probably from Medieval Latin Tartarus, modification of Persian Tātār — more at tatar
First Known Use: 14th century
Foofie
 
  1  
Reply Fri 7 Mar, 2014 09:16 am
@JTT,
JTT wrote:

According to Ukrainian border police, now there are up to 30,000 Russian troops in/on Crimea - before, 16,000 were reported.
///////

Well, they were promised, "Join the military and see the world". Next stop New York.


You don't know how many Russians are now in the five boroughs? They followed the Refusniks back in the 1980's. Entire neighborhoods have a sizable Russian community. Store signs are in Russian, food is Russian, bleached blondes are Russian. One can tell Russians are in a neighborhood when in the middle of the freezing winter their children are in the playgrounds.
0 Replies
 
revelette2
 
  1  
Reply Fri 7 Mar, 2014 09:19 am
@Walter Hinteler,
I was mainly interested in the expanding Russian military and how it possibly ties in with its interest in Crimea. Or maybe not, might be a bit of a stretch.
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Fri 7 Mar, 2014 09:23 am
@Walter Hinteler,
Actually only due to this crisis I've learnt that it is Ukraine without the "the" and that the Tartars actually now are Tatars.

http://i1334.photobucket.com/albums/w641/Walter_Hinteler/a_zps45d1d4b5.jpg

Tempora mutantur, nos et mutamur in illis.
revelette2
 
  1  
Reply Fri 7 Mar, 2014 09:25 am
@Walter Hinteler,
How is Tatars pronounced?

Never mind, looked it up.
0 Replies
 
 

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