31
   

COUP IN KYIV?

 
 
Lordyaswas
 
  1  
Reply Sun 2 Mar, 2014 12:02 pm
@Walter Hinteler,
The French will help out there.

Are the German's good at that stuff, Walt? Haven't you just banned all the nuclear fuel development?
0 Replies
 
revelette2
 
  1  
Reply Sun 2 Mar, 2014 12:11 pm
@izzythepush,
I doubt a Sheriff would do that.

In any case, Russia does have the might, the rest of the world might not have the will, but I just don't think the Ukrainians are going to just lay down and let Russia take any more than they have already in Crimea without a fight, that will be ugly and not to the benefit of Russia in the long run.
Quote:

A febrile pre-war atmosphere gripped Kiev on Sunday as Ukrainians turned out in their tens of thousands to denounce Russia's moves in Crimea and signal a determination to resist any further incursions from their eastern neighbour.

A day after ugly confrontations in Russian-majority cities Kharkiv and Donetsk, inhabitants of the capital said they were ready to respond to calls for mass mobilisation from the new leaders in Kiev.

"We are asking all those who have been called by the defence ministry to show up at the mobilisation stations," Andriy Parubiy, secretary of the Security and Defence Council, said.

And outside the parliament building, there were many prepared to heed his call.

"I'm a lieutenant of reserve," said Andry Cherin, a 29-year-old scientist. "I will go to the recruitment office. I'm against war, but there are no other choice, we need to defend our country. This is our land."

"Russians don't need war," he added. "I think there are only Putin's ambitions."

Liudmyla Naumenko, a 50-year-old philologist, added: "They [the Russians] were calling us their brothers, and now they are going to kill us. I have a 23-year-old son I'm very worried about him. But I spoke to him today and told him that he needs to go and defend the country."

Ukrainians were shocked by Saturday's images from Kharkiv showing Ukrainian nationals being paraded through a crowd of Russians who beat them with sticks and kicked them. There were similar scenes in Donetsk. Donetsk-based oligarch Serhiy Taruta wrote on Saturday: "I call on all who cherish Ukraine and its future, everyone, whose heart is torn by today's news, to consolidate their efforts for preserving of integrity of our state."

Even Rinat Akhmetov, a long-term ally of ousted pro-Russian president Viktor Yanukovich, warned of the threat to the territorial integity of Ukraine. "The future of our country has been put under threat. The internal political tension threatens to escalate into a lengthy conflict and destroy the integrity of Ukraine. The use of force and lawless actions from outside are unacceptable. I believe that the crisis must only have a peaceful solution."

Given the mismatch of military forces -– Russia's military manpower outnumbers Ukraine's by 7:1 – Ukrainian leaders are calling not just for mass mobilisation but also for outside help. MP Lesia Orobets said: "We need western support. Any type of support they can provide is welcomed. We are under Russian aggression. Russia declared war."

But with western support an unlikely contingency, many Ukrainians were looking to protect themselves. "I'm 80, but I will take a gun and will be defending my land," Leonid Kravchuk, independent Ukraine's first president, wrote on his blog.


source
revelette2
 
  1  
Reply Sun 2 Mar, 2014 12:14 pm
@Walter Hinteler,
Nukes are involved because Russia has nukes, and we have nukes, Ukraine has nuclear power which could possibly be at risk as they have stated they are worried about it. No one wants a cold war which is why everyone is so cautious.
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Sun 2 Mar, 2014 12:19 pm
@revelette2,
Well, actually it is already worse now than during some periods of the cold war. (Ukraine’s parliament has called for international monitors to help ensure the safety of its nuclear power plants - that's how they get mainly the electricity.)
0 Replies
 
Lordyaswas
 
  3  
Reply Sun 2 Mar, 2014 12:19 pm
@revelette2,
I don't think that nukes will come into the equation, as there are none on Ukranian soil, and neither side (USA Russia) will want their home cities ashed, just because of a bit of local trouble.
Putin's using muscle to get Crimea, pure and simple.
revelette2
 
  1  
Reply Sun 2 Mar, 2014 12:26 pm
@Lordyaswas,
Why now after all this time? I think it is to station his troops in Crimea to keep a stronghold on Ukraine so that Ukraine won't join NATO or have close ties.
Walter Hinteler
 
  2  
Reply Sun 2 Mar, 2014 12:27 pm
@revelette2,
The formal basis for NATO-Ukraine relations is the 1997 Charter on a Distinctive Partnership.

revelette2 wrote:
Why now after all this time?
Here it is thought that it is a revenge for what happened in the Ukraine during the last weeks.
revelette2
 
  1  
Reply Sun 2 Mar, 2014 12:48 pm
@Walter Hinteler,
The protest and then ouster of then President Yanunkovych started because Yanunkovych rejected the accord reached Nov. 2013 with the European Union. So, at the bottom of all this, is about Russia not liking Ukraine having strong ties with the west and is seizing Crimea to keep it from happening. That's my take on it in any case.

Quote:
The protests broke out after President Yanukovych's government rejected a far-reaching accord with the European Union in November 2013 in favour of stronger ties with Russia. Thousands of people, outraged that a long-standing aspiration for integration with Europe had been ditched overnight, poured into central Kiev for peaceful protests. They have occupied Independence Square, known as Maidan, ever since.

Several developments - including police attacks on student protesters, severe new anti-protest laws, and the abduction and beating of opposition activists - caused the demonstrations to spread and intensify. For many people, they were less about Europe than about getting rid of a president who they believed was clinging to power and serving the interests of his own close circle and Moscow.
RE
source
Walter Hinteler
 
  2  
Reply Sun 2 Mar, 2014 01:07 pm
@revelette2,
My response was related to what
you wrote:
...I think it is to station his troops in Crimea to keep a stronghold on Ukraine so that Ukraine won't join NATO or have close ties.
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Sun 2 Mar, 2014 01:27 pm
German Chancellor Angela Merkel and Russian President Vladimir Putin had agreed to continue "bilateral and multilateral talks", which should lead to a "normalisation" of the situation in Ukraine.

Putin told Merkel that the measures Russia had taken in the face of a "pristine threat of ultra-nationalists" in Ukraine were and are "entirely appropriate", it is said by the Kremlin tonight.
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Sun 2 Mar, 2014 01:30 pm
@Walter Hinteler,
So far there's no public response from here to confirm that.
izzythepush
 
  3  
Reply Sun 2 Mar, 2014 01:48 pm
@revelette2,
Of course Ukraine has mobilised it's troops. So far there's been a lot of posturing, let's hope it doesn't go beyond that.

Neither side is stupid enough to use nukes, that's completely ridiculous. Ukraine was never going to join NATO.

Putin failed diplomatically by pressuring Yanukovych into not signing the deal with the EU. It backfired, he completely miscalculated, and now to save face he's going to try the military option. On Channel 4 News a Russian spokesman blamed western meddling in Ukrainian affairs which forced Russia to intervene. Then he started going on about Iraq. Russia has declared a humanitarian crisis in Crimea, but there's absolutely no evidence of one, no refugees, clear roads etc.

When the Russians feel they've done enough to save face they'll sit down and talk, that is if nothing goes wrong, which it quite easily could.
revelette2
 
  1  
Reply Sun 2 Mar, 2014 01:53 pm

Quote:
Hundreds of armed Russian troops surrounded a Ukrainian military base in Crimea on Sunday and a dozen Ukrainian soldiers placed a tank at the base's gate, leaving the two sides in a tense standoff.


The troops pulled up to the Ukrainian military base at Perevalne on the Crimean Peninsula in a convoy that included at least 13 trucks and four armoured vehicles with mounted machine guns.


The trucks carried 30 soldiers each and had Russian license plates.


Colonel Valery Boyko, Deputy Commander of the 36th Coastguard Brigade told reporters at the scene that the Ukrainian forces intended to protect the "military hardware, weaponry and ammunition inside."


Telegraph's Roland Oliphant, who is outside base said: "As far as we understand there is a truce here. The Ukrainian Colonel who is in command of this base told us he has agreed with his Russian counterpart that the Russians will not enter.


sorce
revelette2
 
  1  
Reply Sun 2 Mar, 2014 01:54 pm
@izzythepush,
Lets hope so at any rate. I was getting NATO and EU agreement mixed up. Too much new information too fast I guess.
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Sun 2 Mar, 2014 02:11 pm
@Walter Hinteler,
This is the original Kremlin report - still no German reaction so far.
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Sun 2 Mar, 2014 02:13 pm
@revelette2,
... and dozens of "Russian" soldiers are trying to convince 400 naval soldiers in the Ukrainian base Feodosia/Crimea to deliver their weapons ...
0 Replies
 
hawkeye10
 
  1  
Reply Sun 2 Mar, 2014 02:22 pm
@Walter Hinteler,
Walter Hinteler wrote:

German Chancellor Angela Merkel and Russian President Vladimir Putin had agreed to continue "bilateral and multilateral talks", which should lead to a "normalisation" of the situation in Ukraine.

Putin told Merkel that the measures Russia had taken in the face of a "pristine threat of ultra-nationalists" in Ukraine were and are "entirely appropriate", it is said by the Kremlin tonight.


One wonders if Obama consulted Merkel, or anyone else, before threatening Putin with throwing Russia out of the G8.......

Obama looks out of touch and pathetically powerless as he reaches for rhetorical taunts.
parados
 
  3  
Reply Sun 2 Mar, 2014 02:25 pm
@hawkeye10,
hawkeye10 wrote:



One wonders if Obama consulted Merkel, or anyone else, before threatening Putin with throwing Russia out of the G8.......

Obama looks out of touch and pathetically powerless as he reaches for rhetorical taunts.

Meanwhile GOP Senators are saying Obama looks weak because he hasn't thrown Russia out of the G8 already.
hawkeye10
 
  1  
Reply Sun 2 Mar, 2014 02:28 pm
@parados,
Quote:
Meanwhile GOP Senators are saying Obama looks weak because he hasn't thrown Russia out of the G8 already.

I was not aware that Obama runs the G8.
Walter Hinteler
 
  2  
Reply Sun 2 Mar, 2014 02:33 pm
@parados,
Already in 2012, a Foreign Policy magazine contributor stated that Russia should be deleted from the G8 altogether.
 

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