31
   

COUP IN KYIV?

 
 
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Thu 27 Feb, 2014 03:59 pm
He was a lover of fine arts and a biographer of Picasso. He wrote wonderful, and often enigmatic short stories. He wrote two novels about George Anson's circumnavigation during the War of Jenkins' Ear (there's an absolutely hilarious passage with some midshipmen chasing a wild sow, and being chased in their turn in the novel The Golden Ocean--all in two short paragraphs). Most of all, he wrote and is best known for the series of 20 novels he wrote about Jack Aubrey--bluff English tar--and Stephen Maturin, the Dublin doctor. (clickity-click). In the second novel, Post Captain, Diana Villiers is suffering through a journey with an obnoxious midshipman, who has no business driving a dog cart. At one point, as O'Brian delicately puts it, the horse demonstrates that he is bean-fed. Mr. Babbington begs her pardon, and Villiers replies: "Oh, that's alright. I thought it was the horse."
Lordyaswas
 
  2  
Reply Thu 27 Feb, 2014 04:03 pm
@Setanta,
I shall clickety click tomorrow, as when I buy stuff online just before bedtime, I usually make a mistake or two and send a couple of grand to an unknown person in Cornwall.

Thanks
panzade
 
  2  
Reply Thu 27 Feb, 2014 04:13 pm
@Setanta,
I've read a few in the series and loved them.
0 Replies
 
JTT
 
  -1  
Reply Thu 27 Feb, 2014 06:09 pm
@Lordyaswas,
Someone is gonna **** on you two for going off topic. It's the #1 no no at a2k.

Sorry, you 3.
0 Replies
 
OmSigDAVID
 
  0  
Reply Thu 27 Feb, 2014 07:37 pm
@Lordyaswas,
Lordyaswas wrote:
I shall clickety click tomorrow, as when I buy stuff online just before bedtime, I usually make a mistake or two and send a couple of grand to an unknown person in Cornwall.

Thanks
Chances r that u made the guy very happy.





David
0 Replies
 
roger
 
  1  
Reply Thu 27 Feb, 2014 08:34 pm
@Lash,
Without having finished catching up, Lash, Setanta is correct. Maybe it comes from decisiveness, as opposed to our own disappearing red lines and "leading from the rear".
Lordyaswas
 
  1  
Reply Fri 28 Feb, 2014 01:59 am
From BBC News Website.....



Ukraine crisis: 'Russians' blockade Crimea airports


The armed men arrived at Simferopol airport in the early hours of the morning

Russian military forces are blockading Sevastopol airport in the Ukrainian region of Crimea, Ukraine's interior minister has said.

Arsen Avakov called their presence an "armed invasion".

Armed men also took over the other main Crimean airport, Simferopol, on Friday morning.

Relations between Russia and the Ukraine have been strained since the ousting of Ukrainian President Viktor Yanokovych, who is now in Russia.

These tensions have been particularly evident in Crimea, Ukraine's only Russian-majority region.

On Thursday, pro-Russian armed men stormed the Simferopol parliament, ousted the existing cabinet and appointed a new prime minister.


http://news.bbcimg.co.uk/media/images/73272000/jpg/_73272447_32d0ffdb-5163-4da6-b081-f877cd8eed23.jpg

Witnesses told Interfax-Ukraine news agency that around 50 men arrived at Simferopol airport carrying Russian navy flags.

The airport is said to be operating as normal.

A man called Vladimir told Reuters he was a volunteer helping the group, though he said he did not know where they came from.

"I'm with the People's Militia of Crimea. We're simple people, volunteers," he said.

"We're here at the airport to maintain order. We'll meet the planes with a nice smile - the airport is working as normal."

On Thursday, a separate group of unidentified armed men entered Crimea's parliament building by force, and hoisted a Russian flag on the roof.

The Crimean parliament later announced it would hold a referendum on expanding the region's autonomy on 25 May.

Recent developments in the Crimea region - which traditionally leans towards Moscow - heightened tensions with Russia, which scrambled fighter jets to monitor its borders on Thursday.

US Secretary of State John Kerry called on all sides to "step back and avoid any kind of provocations" on Thursday.

The US has sought assurances from Russia after President Vladimir Putin ordered snap military drills to test the combat readiness of troops in central and western Russia, near the border with Ukraine earlier in the week.

Mr Kerry said he had spoken to his Russian counterpart, Sergei Lavrov, who vowed to respect Ukraine's "territorial integrity".

Crimea - where ethnic Russians are in a majority - was transferred from Russia to Ukraine in 1954.

Ethnic Ukrainians loyal to Kiev and Muslim Tatars - whose animus towards Russia stretches back to Stalin's deportations during World War Two - have formed an alliance to oppose any move back towards Moscow.

Russia, along with the US, UK and France, pledged to uphold the territorial integrity of Ukraine in a memorandum signed in 1994.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-26379722
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  2  
Reply Fri 28 Feb, 2014 07:35 am
Nothing exciting at Yanukovich's press conference.

The "Russian-like" troops at the Ukrainian coast-guards' basis in Sewastopol are said to be from the 810th Russian brigade (Black Seaa Fleet).

Walter Hinteler
 
  2  
Reply Fri 28 Feb, 2014 07:37 am
@Walter Hinteler,
Walter Hinteler wrote:
Nothing exciting at Yanukovich's press conference.
Well, he just said that Crimea should stay in the Ukraine ...
Walter Hinteler
 
  2  
Reply Fri 28 Feb, 2014 07:51 am
@Walter Hinteler,
From the Guardian's correspondent

http://i1334.photobucket.com/albums/w641/Walter_Hinteler/a_zps7f5a58f0.jpg
0 Replies
 
revelette2
 
  1  
Reply Fri 28 Feb, 2014 07:53 am
@roger,
So, tell me, how does this relate to what is happening in Ukraine or even some (should have said some) conservatives are aligning with Putin in these last few years? I kind of know what you mean, but don't want to put any bizarre interpretations and would rather you spell it out for me first, if you don't mind that is.
0 Replies
 
revelette2
 
  1  
Reply Fri 28 Feb, 2014 07:59 am
@Walter Hinteler,
You think Russia/Putin is just saying he respects Ukraine all the while amassing an occupation or something similar?
Walter Hinteler
 
  2  
Reply Fri 28 Feb, 2014 08:05 am
@revelette2,
Actually, I can't imagine such ... in the "narrowest" meaning.
But might be that what the Russian forces are doing just now is 'only' sabre rattling, to calm down the Russian population (both in Russia as well as in the Ukraine), to keep the status of their bases, to show strength ....
0 Replies
 
Lordyaswas
 
  3  
Reply Fri 28 Feb, 2014 08:10 am
@revelette2,
Russians excel at chess, rev.

They also like to do things but not do them, but everyone knows that they have done these things but can't prove it, or won't dare attempt to prove it.

The Crimean airport is a classic case.

Russian uniform but no insignia, Russian weaponry and Russian vehicles, but nobody stating that these are actual Russian troops.
The Ukranians know they are Russian troops, the Western world knows they are, and Putin knows they are, but nobody can say definitively that they ARE official Russian troops.....and nobody dares go in to take them out for the very same reason.

Why has this covert stuff gone on?

Russia are bound by a treaty, signed in the 90's, saying that they will not harm, interfere with or invade the Crimea in any way.
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Fri 28 Feb, 2014 08:18 am
@Lordyaswas,
Lordyaswas wrote:
The Crimean airport is a classic case.
It has been actually two airports, the one in Sevastopol and the one in the capital Simferopol.
Lordyaswas
 
  2  
Reply Fri 28 Feb, 2014 08:51 am
@Walter Hinteler,
Well they did it twice, then.

Even badder.
0 Replies
 
revelette2
 
  1  
Reply Fri 28 Feb, 2014 08:53 am
I suppose Russia knows that to do something against them would cause huge consequences for everybody concerned so they can do pretty much what they want. The same with us I guess. We just didn't bother with covert stuff but made up a bunch of reasons and went to war with Iraq.

I get the feelings some here say that because Obama leads from behind, this would not have happened under Bush's watch, Russia would not have done it. Didn't Russia invade Georgia in 2008? What did we do but try to have both countries cease the violence?

Russia and Georgia Clash Over Separatist Region

I have no idea what if anything other countries should do in this situation.
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Fri 28 Feb, 2014 09:10 am
@revelette2,
Russian soldiers outside ...

http://i1334.photobucket.com/albums/w641/Walter_Hinteler/a_zpsd11667fe.jpg

... this Ukrainian border control station

http://i1334.photobucket.com/albums/w641/Walter_Hinteler/b_zps35ffbf69.jpg
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Fri 28 Feb, 2014 09:14 am
@revelette2,
revelette2 wrote:
I get the feelings some here say that because Obama leads from behind, this would not have happened under Bush's watch, Russia would not have done it.
You mean, France, Poland and Germany (who made the talks between the then-president and the opposition) were just 'frontrunners' for Obama?
Lordyaswas
 
  2  
Reply Fri 28 Feb, 2014 09:15 am
@revelette2,
Honestly, I think Bush, Reagan, Attila The Hun, whoever you had in office, Putin would still do pretty much as he liked.

Ukraine is already laced with Russian firepower, as their Black Sea Naval Fleet is stationed in Sevastopol, Crimea.

Map.....

http://www.discover-ua.info/uploads/images/Crimea/map_of_crimea.gif

https://www.google.co.uk/maps/vt/data=VLHX1wd2Cgu8wR6jwyh-km8JBWAkEzU4,Pe79ijkWq3InX9KohK787GTwy9z99il5lD1wz70mfxxHQJnDucZDVDtMdb2fKDe_meNSUHuxuiBMARBxrQsy85p87OAgPSo0ZvAuuztUpW5Ws4ixgWbntvqR2UFscXEl3Z4oEoY-57QAR5RUo2m04SODIFPhpnrw_SQ1913pPeO9xs7MaGFMh7e5XFyRDIqhjDLl&h=322&w=738

On the Ukraine map, Crimea is the bottom bit that sticks into the sea. It is actually long term leased by Russia and is used as their main Naval port for that part of the world.
As Walt said earlier, it was actually Russian, and given to Ukraine as a gift from Kruschev back in the 50's, not thinking for one minute that their Soviet empire would ever crumble.
In their mind, the fact that Ukraine owned it was irrelevant, as Ukraine was a firm part of the Soviet Union.

Putin could swat Ukraine like a fly, and could still do, whatever the West says or does in the way of protest.

The west will just have to watch and blow hot air, really, as Putin has all the cards. We might get him to see reason, and be all gentlemanly about it and sign agreements left right and centre, but if Ukraine don't play this very carefully, he'd finish the uprising in a few days at most, and we'd just be spectators.

America doesn't really rate as much of a deterrent in this particular case, I'm afraid. A matter of geography and logistics, primarily.
 

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