7
   

Is Michael Dunn guilty?

 
 
BillRM
 
  2  
Reply Sun 16 Feb, 2014 03:27 am
@Thomas,
Quote:
Dunn shot his victim at a gas station that did not belong to him. In court, five witnesses, including Dunn's own girlfriend, contradicted Dunn's allegation that the victim had threatened him with a gun before Dunn shot him. No witness confirmed the allegation. What ground was there to stand?


I think most if not all of us think this killing have nothing to do with self defense however it also have nothing to do with the stand your ground law either.

If it had been as Mr. Dunn claimed however and when he ask for the music to be turn down he ended up looking down the barrel of a gun under the old self defense law he would had have every damn right to open fire at once.

Only if he would have had time to retreat in a safe manner could he have been charge under the old version of the self defense law and looking down a barrel of a gun next to you would not have given him time to retreat at all.
OmSigDAVID
 
  2  
Reply Sun 16 Feb, 2014 06:19 am
@BillRM,
BillRM wrote:
Quote:
Dunn shot his victim at a gas station that did not belong to him. In court, five witnesses, including Dunn's own girlfriend, contradicted Dunn's allegation that the victim had threatened him with a gun before Dunn shot him. No witness confirmed the allegation. What ground was there to stand?


I think most if not all of us think this killing have nothing to do with self defense however it also have nothing to do with the stand your ground law either.

If it had been as Mr. Dunn claimed however and when he ask for the music to be turn down he ended up looking down the barrel of a gun under the old self defense law he would had have every damn right to open fire at once.

Only if he would have had time to retreat in a safe manner could he have been charge under the old version of the self defense law and looking down a barrel of a gun next to you would not have given him time to retreat at all.
I AGREE.





David
0 Replies
 
Thomas
 
  2  
Reply Sun 16 Feb, 2014 07:49 am
@BillRM,
BillRM wrote:
If it had been as Mr. Dunn claimed however and when he ask for the music to be turn down he ended up looking down the barrel of a gun under the old self defense law he would had have every damn right to open fire at once.[typographical grandstanding deleted --- Thomas.]

Sure! If the facts of the case had been totally different than they were, the jury's verdict should have been totally different than it was. I agree. So what?
BillRM
 
  1  
Reply Sun 16 Feb, 2014 08:12 am
@Thomas,
Quote:
Sure! If the facts of the case had been totally different than they were, the jury's verdict should have been totally different than it was. I agree. So what?


The so what, is that in no case would the stand your ground law yield any difference results then the old self defense law in this situation.

Therefore as in the Zimmerman case the newer version of the self defense law IE stand your ground can hardly be blame one way or another for the results in either cases.

Only in cases where there is a question whether a person could have retreat in a safe manner before using deadly force could the results be difference,

So to sum up the constant attacks on the stand your ground law does not made any kind of sense to me
Advocate
 
  1  
Reply Sun 16 Feb, 2014 09:29 am
@Thomas,
"Stand your ground" means not backing down. It has nothing to do with guarding your castle.
BillRM
 
  1  
Reply Sun 16 Feb, 2014 09:59 am
@Advocate,
Quote:
"Stand your ground" means not backing down. It has nothing to do with guarding your castle.


For the hundred times all stand you ground does is take away the duty to retreat if possible before using deadly force outside your home or your business where you never did have a duty to retreat.

At no point does the stand your ground law allow you to employ deadly force in protecting property in or out of your home.
0 Replies
 
Thomas
 
  1  
Reply Sun 16 Feb, 2014 05:21 pm
@BillRM,
BillRM wrote:
So to sum up the constant attacks on the stand your ground law does not made any kind of sense to me

But nobody was attacking the stand-your-ground law here. I merely answered a question of Advocate's:

Advocate wrote:
Has there been any discussion about the "stand your ground" law relative to the Dunn case? I understand that Dunn thinks that this law protects him. I am sure that his appeal will focus on that law.

Advocate's question, in turn, hadn't attacked "stand your ground", either. Can you see why your response to me puzzled me a little?
BillRM
 
  1  
Reply Sun 16 Feb, 2014 07:13 pm
@Thomas,
Quote:
Advocate's question, in turn, hadn't attacked "stand your ground", either. Can you see why your response to me puzzled me a little?


Yes and you are correct after reading one attack after another over the stand your ground law in other threads and a drum beat in all the cable news channels I was prime to reacted in the manner I did.

Sorry about doing so where the postings in this thread did not call for it.
0 Replies
 
OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Reply Sun 16 Feb, 2014 08:49 pm

From the little information that I have gleaned
from this killing, I suspect that defendant was guilty.

I have a HUNCH that he failed to control his emotions
and that when the blacks mouthed off qua the noise that thay were making,
Mr. Dunn got mad and he opened up on them for the fun of it.
Allegedly, he was still blasting away while his target vehicle fled.

I dunno, but I suspect that in this case, Mr. Dunn
acted in the role of (tuff guy) Martin in Zimmy 's case.




David
BillRM
 
  1  
Reply Mon 17 Feb, 2014 03:41 am
@OmSigDAVID,
Agree it sure the hell does not look like any kind of a self defense situation but as a second degree murder case instead due to a moment of an out of control temper and it was damn lucky that he ended up killing only one person in that car.

My bet is that the jury would have had no problem nailing him for second degree murder but the state seems in high profile cases of whites killing blacks at least to love to overcharge going for a first degree murder conviction that does not seems to fit this crime or the facts of this crime.

Now the question here is there going to be a plead deal for second degree or a retrial for second degree instead of first degree murder?
OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Reply Mon 17 Feb, 2014 04:19 am
@BillRM,
BillRM wrote:

Agree it sure the hell does not look like any kind of a self defense situation
but as a second degree murder case instead due to a moment of an
out of control temper and it was damn lucky that he ended up killing
only one person in that car.

My bet is that the jury would have had no problem nailing him
for second degree murder but the state seems in high profile cases
of whites killing blacks at least to love to overcharge going for a first
degree murder conviction that does not seems to fit this crime or the facts of this crime.

Now the question here is there going to be a plead deal for second
degree or a retrial for second degree instead of first degree murder?
Another question is the length of prison time
for the crimes whereof he has already been convicted.

I think that his conviction will stand as a healthy example
of the benefits of controlling and restraining our emotions.

( There is also an example of what loyalty we can expect from friends. )





David
BillRM
 
  1  
Reply Mon 17 Feb, 2014 05:15 am
@OmSigDAVID,
I love the news media once more trying to spin the race/self defense law issue when it is clear that the jury did not buy into self defense and the likely reason that the murder charge resulted in a hung jury was overcharging.
0 Replies
 
Advocate
 
  1  
Reply Mon 17 Feb, 2014 02:40 pm
@OmSigDAVID,
Remember that Dunn was coming from his son's wedding. He was probably somewhat drunk and acting irrationally because of this. Of course, being drunk is no excuse in the eyes of the law.
OmSigDAVID
 
  2  
Reply Mon 17 Feb, 2014 05:20 pm
@Advocate,
Advocate wrote:
Remember that Dunn was coming from his son's wedding.
He was probably somewhat drunk and acting irrationally because of this.
Of course, being drunk is no excuse in the eyes of the law.
I dunno, but I suspect (without ever having met Mr. Dunn) that the wine
made him a little more irritable than usual. He still knew of the need
to be very careful qua the circumstances of applying gunfire to anyone.
That is a very, very serious matter and he opted to take it too lightly.
He will pay for that act. He will have plenty of time to judge whether his choice was wise.

I 'm not a big drinker, generally, but I have always known
that drunk or sober, I will be responsible for what I say or do.

It was not likely first degree murder in that he did not go to
that gas station to kill a black.





David
0 Replies
 
Advocate
 
  1  
Reply Tue 18 Feb, 2014 09:21 am
@edgarblythe,
edgarblythe wrote:

Maybe if they convict it will make white guys think twice about shooting black men for made up reasons.


Your statement is correct. Moreover, the death of Jordan Davis should also serve as a lesson to everyone not to mindlessly mouth-off to others, especially strangers. This is because, I believe, an increasing number of people are packing, and the person mouthing off just might get shot. Evidently, Davis's words to Dunn got him killed.
BillRM
 
  1  
Reply Tue 18 Feb, 2014 09:29 am
@Advocate,
Quote:
Your statement is correct. Moreover, the death of Jordan Davis should also serve as a lesson to everyone not to mindlessly mouth-off to others, especially strangers. This is because, I believe, an increasing number of people are packing, and the person mouthing off just might get shot. Evidently, Davis's words to Dunn got him killed.


True and not true as mouthing off is not a reason to open fired on anyone as I had told the story before due to my lightly hitting a woman car with a shopping cart in a Home Deposit parking lot she got into my face and informed me that she was going to killed me in fact follow me home and killed me.

After winding down she got back into her car never having a clue that I have my hands on a gun in my pocket all during this just in case the lady would pull out a gun or a knife.
0 Replies
 
edgarblythe
 
  1  
Reply Tue 18 Feb, 2014 01:03 pm
@Advocate,
Advocate wrote:

edgarblythe wrote:

Maybe if they convict it will make white guys think twice about shooting black men for made up reasons.


Your statement is correct. Moreover, the death of Jordan Davis should also serve as a lesson to everyone not to mindlessly mouth-off to others, especially strangers. This is because, I believe, an increasing number of people are packing, and the person mouthing off just might get shot. Evidently, Davis's words to Dunn got him killed.

Oh, So, if someone speaks harshly to you, and you speak harshly back, the fault for the shooting is also on the shootee. Give the streets to the gun toters.
Advocate
 
  1  
Reply Tue 18 Feb, 2014 02:26 pm
@edgarblythe,
I'm not sure it is safe to tell you this, but I don't pack. However, many people do, and it would be folly to take them on verbally. Of course, a mere gun would not intimidate you.
Thomas
 
  1  
Reply Tue 18 Feb, 2014 02:32 pm
@Advocate,
Advocate wrote:
Remember that Dunn was coming from his son's wedding. He was probably somewhat drunk and acting irrationally because of this. Of course, being drunk is no excuse in the eyes of the law.

Is it an excuse in your eyes? How is drinking and packing any better than drinking and driving?
Thomas
 
  1  
Reply Tue 18 Feb, 2014 02:33 pm
@Advocate,
Advocate wrote:
This is because, I believe, an increasing number of people are packing, and the person mouthing off just might get shot. Evidently, Davis's words to Dunn got him killed.

Would you say the same thing if the shoe was on the other foot? If Davis had indeed produced a gun and if Dunn had gotten killed as a result of mouthing off about the music?
 

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