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The Death Penalty - Should it be abolished?

 
 
Thok
 
  1  
Reply Sat 24 Apr, 2004 10:12 pm
It is the eternal discussion
0 Replies
 
Tarantulas
 
  1  
Reply Sat 24 Apr, 2004 11:22 pm
As I stated in another thread (maybe two), I believe it's justified in extreme situations. A friend once said that it's the same as retroactive self defense for the victim. And in some cases, a crime is so extreme that we as a society must revoke the criminal's right to keep breathing our oxygen.

Let's take a look at some crimes in Arizona that deserved the death penalty. These are current death row inmates.

Quote:
Frank W. Anderson

Leta Kagen (39), Leta's 15-year-old son, Robert Delahunt, Roland Wear (50), and Bobby Poyson (21) lived in a remote area of Mohave County. On August 13, 1996, Frank Anderson (48) and Kimberly Lane (15) had been hitchhiking in the area, and Leta agreed to let Anderson and Lane spend the night. Anderson, Poyson, and Lane decided to kill Leta, Robert, and Roland, and steal Roland's truck and other property. Lane enticed Robert into a travel trailer on the property, where Anderson cut Robert's throat nearly from ear to ear with a bread knife. Anderson held the struggling boy down, and then assisted Poyson in driving the bread knife through Robert's ear, and out his mouth. Poyson finally ended Robert's struggling by crushing his skull with a rock. Three to four hours later, after eating dinner, Anderson and Poyson entered Leta's mobile home, and Poyson killed her by shooting her in her head with a rifle, as Anderson held a lantern for light. Roland awoke, and Poyson shot him in his mouth. Poyson then hit Roland with the rifle stock, and Anderson hit him with the lantern. Roland and Poyson struggled out into the yard, where Anderson gave Poyson a cinder block, which Poyson used to bludgeon Roland to death.

Quote:
Phillip Bocharski

On May 13, 1995, Freeda Brown's partially decomposed body was found in her trailer located outside of Congress, Arizona. The cause of death was determined to be multiple stab wounds to the head and neck. The victim also had a defensive wound on her right hand. Phillip Bocharski lived in a tent near Congress. He had previously done some odd jobs for the victim, including driving her to Wickenburg banks and stores so she could cash checks. On May 10, 1995, Frank Sukis gave Bocharski a ride to Congress to obtain food handouts from a food bank. Upon returning to Bocharski's tent, they saw Ms. Brown, and Bocharski told Sukis they should kill her because she was 85 years old and was complaining of arthritis. Before Ms. Brown's death, Bocharski was broke; after her death, he had "hundreds of dollars" he claimed had been given to him by someone who wanted some work done in the future; he subsequently told Sukis that he had been given $500 in advance "to do a hit job in Prescott." Bocharski told a friend that he had "murdered an old lady for her money. "

Quote:
Scott D. Clabourne

On the evening of September 18, 1980, Laura Webster, a University of Arizona student, was at the Green Dolphin Bar in Tucson with friends. She met Scott D. Clabourne and Larry Langston at the bar and agreed to leave with them. Clabourne and Langston then took Webster to the house of a friend of Langston. Ms. Webster was repeatedly raped and sodomized, then strangled and stabbed in the heart three times. Her body was dumped in an arroyo, where it was found the next morning. Langston pled guilty to murder and received a life sentence.

Quote:
Daniel Wayne Cook

Daniel Wayne Cook, John Matzke, and Carlos Froyan Cruz-Ramos worked at a restaurant in Lake Havasu City and shared an apartment. On July 19, 1987, Cook stole some money from Cruz-Ramos. When Cruz-Ramos began searching the apartment for the money, Cook and Matzke tied Cruz-Ramos to a chair and began beating him with their fists and a metal pipe. Cook also cut Cruz-Ramos with a knife, sodomized him, and burned his genitals with cigarettes. After several hours of this torture, Matzke and Cook crushed Cruz-Ramos' throat with the pipe. When Kevin Swaney, another co-worker, arrived at the apartment, Cook forced him upstairs and showed him Cruz-Ramos' body. Cook and Matzke then tied Swaney to a chair. Matzke went to sleep while Cook sodomized Swaney. When Cook was finished, he woke Matzke and the two men strangled Swaney to death with a bed sheet. Matzke pled guilty to second-degree murder and testified against Cook.

Quote:
James Davolt

On November 23, 1998, James Davolt was riding a bicycle in his neighborhood when he saw Nicholas Zimmer, an elderly local resident. Davolt knew Nicholas and the two began to talk. Nicholas took Davolt with him to a local hardware store before the two returned to the Zimmer residence, where they went into the garage. There, Davolt picked up a hatchet and struck Nicholas in the head three times. Nicholas escaped from Davolt and ran into the house. Davolt eventually broke into the Zimmer residence, found Nicholas, and shot him twice in the chest. Davolt then found Nicholas' wife, Eleanor, who was also at home. He brought her to a bank and unsuccessfully tried to withdraw money from her account with an ATM card. Davolt then made Eleanor write him a check for $1,500. He went into the bank and cashed the check. The next day, Davolt strangled Eleanor to death. Davolt then placed the two victims' bodies in the kitchen, covered them with paper, doused them with fuel, and set them on fire. Davolt took the Zimmers' car and drove to California where police ultimately apprehended him.

Quote:
Richard K. Djerf

On September 14, 1993, Richard K. Djerf forced himself into the Luna residence at gunpoint. Djerf believed Albert Luna, Jr. had burglarized his house. Patricia Luna and her 5-year-old son were at home. Djerf secured Mrs. Luna and her son by tying their arms and legs and gagging them. When Rochelle Luna arrived several hours later, Djerf took her to her bedroom where he raped and killed her. When Albert Luna, Sr. arrived at home, Djerf forced him into his bedroom at gunpoint. Djerf handcuffed Mr. Luna to a bed and smashed his head with a baseball bat, and then removed the handcuffs because he believed Mr. Luna was dead. Djerf then returned to the kitchen where Mrs. Luna and Damien Luna remained. Mr. Luna regained consciousness and charged the Defendant. Djerf then killed Mr. Luna, and shot Mrs. Luna and Damien in the head.

Quote:
Michael Steven Gallegos

On March 16, 1990, Michael Steven Gallegos and George Anthony Smallwood were staying at Smallwood's mother's house when they decided to sexually assault Smallwood's half-sister, Kendall Wishon, age 8. They went into her room, and when she awoke, Gallegos held his hand over her mouth and nose causing her to suffocate. After Kendall became unconscious, Gallegos proceeded to have anal intercourse with her for 15 to 20 minutes. After finishing, Gallegos and Smallwood dumped the victim's body under a tree down the street from the Smallwood residence.

Quote:
David Gulbrandson

David Gulbrandson and the 45-year-old female victim operated a photography business, and also were involved in an intimate personal relationship. The victim ended their personal relationship in January of 1991, and Gulbrandson physically assaulted her on February 14, 1991. The victim sought and obtained a protective order against Gulbrandson as a result of this assault. On March 9, 1991, Gulbrandson threatened to kill the victim during a telephone conversation. Sometime late in the evening of March 10, 1991, or early in the morning of March 11, 1991, Gulbrandson entered the victim's home, and brutally tortured and murdered her while her two children were sleeping. Despite the victim's intense struggle, Gulbrandson inflicted 33 incision-type injuries all over her body, a puncture wound to her liver, and at least ten blunt force injuries. In addition, he cracked the victim's teeth, fractured her nose and seven of her ribs, embedded part of a wooden salad fork in her leg, and attempted to burn her by lighting her hair on fire. Gulbrandson killed her by either strangling her or by inflicting a blow to her neck which caused her to suffocate. Gulbrandson left the victim in the master bedroom clad only in her panties, with her ankles and one wrist bound with electrical cords, and he left three knives, one razor knife, and one pair of scissors, all of which were bloodstained, in the kitchen sink. Gulbrandson left the scene in the victim's car. Gulbrandson's fingerprints were found at the scene, and bloody clothing was found at his residence. The victim's car was located in Montana on April 1, 1991, and Gulbrandson was arrested there 2 days later.

This is about one quarter of the death row list. I can post more if anyone is interested. I would like to hear anyone's rationale for why these people deserve to live.
0 Replies
 
edgarblythe
 
  1  
Reply Sat 24 Apr, 2004 11:39 pm
I don't know that these people deserve to live. I only know that there are far too many mistakes in our convictions of those on death row. It is sufficient to remove them from society permanently, if they are truly guilty. Revenge or vengeance is the only motive for executions, and I reject them as sufficient to cause their deaths.
0 Replies
 
Tarantulas
 
  1  
Reply Sat 24 Apr, 2004 11:46 pm
Oh I agree, there should be absolutely no doubt that the person is guilty. They deserve to be able to appeal their convictions if there's evidence that they're innocent.
0 Replies
 
edgarblythe
 
  1  
Reply Sun 25 Apr, 2004 07:46 am
They also do not need to be executed to keep them from society.
0 Replies
 
rabel22
 
  1  
Reply Sun 25 Apr, 2004 01:29 pm
They just buried a young lady in minn. today who was raped and murdered by a rapest who was let out of jail a short time ago. Perhaps the rest of you can justify why this person should be allowed to live if they find him guilty but I cannot. The best reason for the death penality is that the perpertrators of these inhuman acts cant repeat them if they are put to death. At least they git a trial which is a he-l of a lot better chance than the young lady in Minn. had. Put them in jail for life? How many people have escaped jail and killed again. The protection of the innocent is just as important as the protection of the rights of lawbreakers. As stated previously by someone the reason that the death penalty dosent work is because the murderes know that they wont die for 20 years if ever. With luck they will run across an idiot governor like Illinois ex-governor Ryan who will pardon or commute thier sentances. One such person who had his sentance commuted in Illinois pulled a 16 year old girl over while posing as a police officer and raped her with some friends and than cut her throat while she begged for her life. How about someone explaining to me why he deserves to live without this "its inhuman crap" as an excuse. How would you describe this animal without useing the term inhuman?
0 Replies
 
edgarblythe
 
  1  
Reply Sun 25 Apr, 2004 01:40 pm
The death penalty is unnecessary. What is necessary is a system for keeping monsters from getting out again. In this area society has been very lax. It is the reason it took me so long to reject the death penalty.
Even where the death penalty is in force, death does not come quickly, because there exists a possibility that the condemned may be innocent. The long time between conviction and execution date is to give the system time to exhaust every possibility. This will not change even if every law abiding person accepts the death penalty.
0 Replies
 
suzy
 
  1  
Reply Sun 25 Apr, 2004 01:44 pm
It's apples and oranges. You can kill an innocent person on death row, or a guilty person might escape and kill an innocent person.
An innocent person is killed in either scenario.
The one who is falsely convicted is no less a victim.
There are no easy answers.
0 Replies
 
rabel22
 
  1  
Reply Sun 25 Apr, 2004 02:17 pm
Thats a bunch of bull. At one time before we had dna and other helps for the police we needed to go slowly to make sure that we were right. Today we know in some cases within days that a person is guilty without a doubt. give them thier rights let them go back to court for thier extra days in court then kill them. One year should suffice in some cases. Ryan let people go about which thier was no doubt of thier guilt. This isent justice. Nor is it justice to make another 20 year old pay the ultimate price because someone is afriad we might make a mistake. Send them through the justice system and let the courts do thier job. From what I can see more guilty people git off then innocent people are convicted.
0 Replies
 
edgarblythe
 
  1  
Reply Sun 25 Apr, 2004 02:19 pm
If one innocent person gets executed due to haste, it wipes out all the "good" in executing the "obviously guilty" in a hurry.
0 Replies
 
suzy
 
  1  
Reply Sun 25 Apr, 2004 02:24 pm
That's right, Edgar, which was my point as well.
If an innocent convict is killed, that convict is no less a victim than the girl in MN. It isn't bull, it's a fact, rabel.
0 Replies
 
edgarblythe
 
  1  
Reply Sun 25 Apr, 2004 02:30 pm
I acknowledge you said it first, Suzy, but I felt it needed underscoring.
0 Replies
 
MyOwnUsername
 
  1  
Reply Sun 25 Apr, 2004 02:50 pm
Anyway, I think Rebel has right to his own opinion...as well as Saudis, Iranians and people in Congo, that remain about all that are still supporting this opinion (in political/legal way)
0 Replies
 
edgarblythe
 
  1  
Reply Sun 25 Apr, 2004 02:58 pm
We all have a right to an opinion. I did not tell him what he could believe, nor would I want to. At one time I held the same opinions he does.
0 Replies
 
MyOwnUsername
 
  1  
Reply Sun 25 Apr, 2004 03:01 pm
I know edgar, my point was actually in this part where others with same opinion (very very few remain) are mentioned - of course that, despite irony, they still do have right to this opinion.
0 Replies
 
edgarblythe
 
  1  
Reply Sun 25 Apr, 2004 03:16 pm
Public opinion generally favors a death penalty. It is actually people like Suzy and I who have to struggle for acknowledgement.
0 Replies
 
suzy
 
  1  
Reply Sun 25 Apr, 2004 03:17 pm
Hahaha! Smile Feisty today, Edgar? Smile
I was restating that point for rabel, not for you!
Rabel just reiterated it, and I was pointing that out.
Sorry if I sounded like iwas defending my turf or something. That's not what I meant. Smile
0 Replies
 
edgarblythe
 
  1  
Reply Sun 25 Apr, 2004 03:19 pm
Laughing No prob, Suzy. I just happen to be bored today.
0 Replies
 
rabel22
 
  1  
Reply Mon 26 Apr, 2004 09:10 pm
So as I understand it most of you think its OK to rape and kill an innocent 20 year old women but horribley wrong to execute the murder rapest. I guess im out of step with the rest of the world but no one here has convinced me its wrong to destroy a mind that can do such things. They all have lawers up the yang yang protecting thier rights (the murders that is) but the victin is dead so just forget about them. Some justice.
0 Replies
 
edgarblythe
 
  1  
Reply Mon 26 Apr, 2004 09:16 pm
Twisting the truth around in spiteful comments will not make your argument forceful, rabel. It merely lowers the discussion to name calling.
0 Replies
 
 

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