Well...I've been writing in the forums for 5 years...and this is one of the most unusual posts I've ever encountered.
I truly do not know how to react to it...but I wanted at least to post and let you know that I have read it.
Thanks for sharing the story.
I assume James was sentenced to death (you never actually stated that)...and is still on death row.
Some states (like mine, New Jersey) have not executed anyone in many decades. What is the situation in California?
I'd keep the death penalty around for cases like those of Charles Manson in which we're clearly not doing anybody any favors keeping the guy in question around.
Nonetheless, there is one thing which would absolutely have to change. You can't unhang somebody, and hence the normal American legal criteria of guilty beyond a reasonable doubt is simply not good enough. For capital punishment, it has to be beyond any doubt whatsoever.
DNA studies eliminating something like 30% of the prime suspects in felony cases have come as a shock to many in the legal system because they translate into some fairly large number of people in prison for things they did not do. They expected the number to be more like two or three percent.
The other side of the coin is that in many places in America today, by the time somebody ever gets thrown in prison the first time, he'd have been killed twenty times over in any rational society. You need (to get thrown in prison) to be demonstrably bad and then get on a waiting list.
To my thinking there's something intrinsically wrong with our adversarial system of conducting trials. A DA should be paid according to how much justice he has produced and not according to how many convictions he has achieved.
James Davolt- Welcome to A2K!
I certainly can understand you questioning the law against executing a sixteen year old. But let's look at this another way. Suppose you were reading the article about the conviction, and the young man were a stranger to you. Would you still have those questions? And what were your views on the death penalty for 16 year olds, before the issue of your son arose?
Kids killing kids--neighbors killing neighbors--kids killing adults are all a fairly new phenomenon. Of course it has happened from time to time throughout all history I suppose, but it was so very rare before the last 20-30 years or so. People didn't talk about executing under-age-18 people because the issue simply didn't come up for most of us. Incorrigible juvenile delinquents were sent to reform school until they were 18, their record was then expunged, and they returned to society.
Now kids seem to be much more violent and killings have become almost commonplace. As Gunga pointed out, the possibilities of error in conviction are daunting, but the fact that our society has become so much more violent and senseless is also indisputable.
When the evidence leaves no possibility of error, can we say that kids who kill should still be treated just as kids, sent to reform school maybe, and then returned to society when they are 18?
What would I want for my own son in that situation? It's a terribly difficult question.
The death penalty should be reserved for those criminals that are convicted on 100 percent proof of the crime(s). Even eye-witness crimes are not all that reliable, but circumstantial evidence can be enough to convict a criminal. It would depend on the weight of evidence, and the skills of the attorneys and judge to make sure the trial is expertly accomplished - which is not always possible. The jury can only rely on this process, because there is nothing else available in our society. DNA is a recent tool which can enhance our legal system, but that's not the solution for all crimes.
James Davolt wrote:
At 16 years old I question his maturity. I have heard from investigators and my ex wife that my son was a good student, didn't do drugs or drink and was on his way to school.
It's the part about not doing drugs which I'd have a hard time with. I lived in Prince Georges County Md. when it was the PCP capital of the world and it was invariably the case that the common denominator for all of the horrific and stupid crimes you read about, i.e. the ones which did not even compute logically from the point of view of the criminal, was either PCP or some other sort of Jeckyl/Hyde formula drug.
Wanta see a case where you could justify the death penalty, no questions asked, and never lose a minute's sleep over it? Try this:
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,142811,00.html
Rahman clearly represents a danger to the United States and to people outside the US so long as he is alive, and nobody is doing him any favors by keeping him alive.
Other than that, the idea of actually hanging a couple of ACLU types along with him would probably pack any of the biggest stadiums in America.
gunga wrote...
Other than that, the idea of actually hanging a couple of ACLU types along with him would probably pack any of the biggest stadiums in America.
with people like you no doubt...are you putting that forth as a positive accomplishment?
Sorry to say but the discussion of this topic is off kilter.
The closest thing we can, currently, approach to a 100% assessment of guilt involves those who confess to their guilt, and in virtually every case, those who confess to their guilt plea bargain their way to a life sentence.
And it has been proven that confessions are anything but 100% certain and therefore placing a requirement of 100% certainty on the death penalty is nothing other than arguing that it should never be employed.
The issue of the death penalty reduces to two issues:
1) Should the State have the power to murder its citizens: I think not
2) Should those who take a life forfeit their own: I think they should.
Since a society cannot tolerate vigilantism, it falls to the State to mete out justice. Since we should never allow the State the liberty to kill it's members, we are left with the very unsatisfying conclusion that miscreant bastards who deserve death twice over should not receive it as a matter of societal politics.
But let's not fool ourselves that these bastards don't deserve to die. The feckless fools who parade around prisons with lit candles on the eve of an execution are, plain and simple, jackasses.
Recently in TN, a monster raped, unto death, an 18 month old baby. I could care less what the source of his perversion may be, by any standard of justice, he deserves to suffer the ultimate punishment.
Now if the anti-death penalty folken would accept heinous torturous punishment, then I would jump on their side.
Unfortunately, in the absence of a death penalty, this bastard will, at best, simply live the rest of his life behind bars.
He should cease to live, but who can carry out such a sentence? The State? Sorry, no. You or I? Sorry, no. The family of the victim? Ever more sorry, no. When we accept the benefits of society we must surrender certain individual liberties.
However, should this baby's father slit the bastard's throat who would not help hide him from The Law?
There're two criteria I'd use for hanging people, i.e. guilty beyond any doubt whatsoever, and sufficiently messed up that nobody is doing the guy any favors by keeping him around. The guy you speak of meets both criteria.
gungasnake wrote:There're two criteria I'd use for hanging people, i.e. guilty beyond any doubt whatsoever, and sufficiently messed up that nobody is doing the guy any favors by keeping him around. The guy you speak of meets both criteria.
No one, but no one, can be guilty beyond any doubt.
Many qualify for extermination, but who gets to make that decision?
If juries. literally, executed the sentences they imposed, I would be OK with the death penalty, but is that going to happen?
Finn, There have been too many cases where an innocent person confessed to a crime they did not commit. Not always 100 percent proof.
cicerone imposter wrote:Finn, There have been too many cases where an innocent person confessed to a crime they did not commit. Not always 100 percent proof.
CI
Read my posts - this is precisely my point. There is never 100% certainty.
It would be helpful if you and other A2Kers would actually read what is posted, rather than make assumptions based upon prejudice.
Frank Apisa wrote:Well...I've been writing in the forums for 5 years...and this is one of the most unusual posts I've ever encountered.
I truly do not know how to react to it...but I wanted at least to post and let you know that I have read it.
Thanks for sharing the story.
I assume James was sentenced to death (you never actually stated that)...and is still on death row.
Some states (like mine, New Jersey) have not executed anyone in many decades. What is the situation in California?
Yes my son received 2 Death Penalties plus 41 years all consecutively run. Last month I found out that the death penalties had been put aside and remanded back to the Mohave County Superior Court judge that sentenced him to prove that he was mature to understand what was happening. I believe what will happen is that he will end up receiving 2 natural life sentences if not from what I mentioned about then by the lawsuit brought by about 30 death row inmates who were sentenced to death by the judge after being convicted by a jury. The Supreme Court ruled that sentencing by the judges in the cases violated their civil rights and was unconstitutional. It caused quite a controversy here in Arizona with at least 30 inmates Death Penalties up in the air and having to be resentenced.
Like I said in my previous post I don't condone what was done and if Jimmy did do this then he most certainly deserves to pay for his actions. I questioned his maturity only because right before sentencing the judge allowed him to fire his defense lawyers and to represent himself. Needless to say my son didn't present any kind of mitigating circumstances or in fact any kind of defense at all. I question the Judges decision to let him fire his lawyers. He had just turned 18, up till that time his mother had been handling everything. Any way thank you for letting me share with you in this forum. I just found this site yesterday and have enjoyed reading your debate on this issue.
James Davolt
Phoenix32890 wrote:James Davolt- Welcome to A2K!
I certainly can understand you questioning the law against executing a sixteen year old. But let's look at this another way. Suppose you were reading the article about the conviction, and the young man were a stranger to you. Would you still have those questions? And what were your views on the death penalty for 16 year olds, before the issue of your son arose?
I would like to think that I would still have the questions, but honestly I just don't know. I am sorry to say I never spent much time thinking about it prior to this. But there is not a day goes by that I don't think of it now. I also think daily of how his victims family must feel. If I was in their place it would be hard to question any age being put to death for their actions.
Thank you for your welcome, I appreciate it very much,
James
gungasnake wrote:[It's the part about not doing drugs which I'd have a hard time with. I lived in Prince Georges County Md. when it was the PCP capital of the world and it was invariably the case that the common denominator for all of the horrific and stupid crimes you read about, i.e. the ones which did not even compute logically from the point of view of the criminal, was either PCP or some other sort of Jeckyl/Hyde formula drug.
All I can go by is what I was told by the investigator the defense team hired to interview his family. I wasn't there nor did I even know about any of it until a private investigator showed up at my door after his conviction. There was no evidence of any drug use and a drug test administered after he was arrested 2 days later was clean. I would tend to agreee only because I can't imagine any reason while on your way to school to just decide to kill 2 people. but if he was there was no evidence of any.
Like I say, that one sounds for all the world like a typical PCP crime. I have no use for the "war on drugs", but I can't see legalizing the Jeckyl/Hyde formulas. Put me in charge of it, and I'd legalize grass and all the relatively less harmfull stuff on the same basis as booze, make heroin available to addicts at govt centers at cost so as to take all profit out of it, but I'd keep a total ban on the evil stuff.
James Davolt - Let's talk about your son. Please contact me
I know how to react - James, please contact me as I am new to post and unable to contact you privately.
Thanks
James Davolt wrote:Frank Apisa wrote:Well...I've been writing in the forums for 5 years...and this is one of the most unusual posts I've ever encountered.
I truly do not know how to react to it...but I wanted at least to post and let you know that I have read it.
Thanks for sharing the story.
I assume James was sentenced to death (you never actually stated that)...and is still on death row.
Some states (like mine, New Jersey) have not executed anyone in many decades. What is the situation in California?
Yes my son received 2 Death Penalties plus 41 years all consecutively run. Last month I found out that the death penalties had been put aside and remanded back to the Mohave County Superior Court judge that sentenced him to prove that he was mature to understand what was happening. I believe what will happen is that he will end up receiving 2 natural life sentences if not from what I mentioned about then by the lawsuit brought by about 30 death row inmates who were sentenced to death by the judge after being convicted by a jury. The Supreme Court ruled that sentencing by the judges in the cases violated their civil rights and was unconstitutional. It caused quite a controversy here in Arizona with at least 30 inmates Death Penalties up in the air and having to be resentenced.
Like I said in my previous post I don't condone what was done and if Jimmy did do this then he most certainly deserves to pay for his actions. I questioned his maturity only because right before sentencing the judge allowed him to fire his defense lawyers and to represent himself. Needless to say my son didn't present any kind of mitigating circumstances or in fact any kind of defense at all. I question the Judges decision to let him fire his lawyers. He had just turned 18, up till that time his mother had been handling everything. Any way thank you for letting me share with you in this forum. I just found this site yesterday and have enjoyed reading your debate on this issue.
James Davolt
Re: James Davolt - Let's talk about your son. Please contac
Yes, James Davolt, currently 23, sits isolated in his cell on Death Row. In one of the most inhumane prisons there is: Super Maximum Unit # II in the violence control unit... he is locked in sensory depravation, 24 hours a day, less the 3 hours he is let out 3 times a week for rec (which consists ONLY of a hand ball) and a shower.
STOP The Killing wrote:I know how to react - James, please contact me as I am new to post and unable to contact you privately.
Thanks
James Davolt wrote:Frank Apisa wrote:Well...I've been writing in the forums for 5 years...and this is one of the most unusual posts I've ever encountered.
I truly do not know how to react to it...but I wanted at least to post and let you know that I have read it.
Thanks for sharing the story.
I assume James was sentenced to death (you never actually stated that)...and is still on death row.
Some states (like mine, New Jersey) have not executed anyone in many decades. What is the situation in California?
Yes my son received 2 Death Penalties plus 41 years all consecutively run. Last month I found out that the death penalties had been put aside and remanded back to the Mohave County Superior Court judge that sentenced him to prove that he was mature to understand what was happening. I believe what will happen is that he will end up receiving 2 natural life sentences if not from what I mentioned about then by the lawsuit brought by about 30 death row inmates who were sentenced to death by the judge after being convicted by a jury. The Supreme Court ruled that sentencing by the judges in the cases violated their civil rights and was unconstitutional. It caused quite a controversy here in Arizona with at least 30 inmates Death Penalties up in the air and having to be resentenced.
Like I said in my previous post I don't condone what was done and if Jimmy did do this then he most certainly deserves to pay for his actions. I questioned his maturity only because right before sentencing the judge allowed him to fire his defense lawyers and to represent himself. Needless to say my son didn't present any kind of mitigating circumstances or in fact any kind of defense at all. I question the Judges decision to let him fire his lawyers. He had just turned 18, up till that time his mother had been handling everything. Any way thank you for letting me share with you in this forum. I just found this site yesterday and have enjoyed reading your debate on this issue.
James Davolt
