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Does finite sin deserve infinite punishment?

 
 
informateur
 
  0  
Reply Wed 22 Jan, 2014 04:07 pm
@Romeo Fabulini,
I'm new to town. Nice to meet you.
Romeo Fabulini
 
  1  
Reply Wed 22 Jan, 2014 04:11 pm
@informateur,
Likewise I'm sure..Smile
PS- If you click on peoples names you'll see their profiles including mine, but a lot of people leave theirs blank
informateur
 
  0  
Reply Wed 22 Jan, 2014 04:13 pm
@Romeo Fabulini,
Offer appreciated. I'll pass.
Romeo Fabulini
 
  1  
Reply Wed 22 Jan, 2014 04:17 pm
@informateur,
Downside of a blank profile is that it makes the person seem as if they're scaredy-cats hiding under the bed..Smile

http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g64/PoorOldSpike/eyes-under-bed_zpsfedb637f.jpg~original
0 Replies
 
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Wed 22 Jan, 2014 04:22 pm
@BeHereNow,
BeHereNow wrote:

Quote:
Frank Apisa If you are arguing that it is all a bunch of nonsense...I am shoulder to shoulder with you.

Are you?
No, just asking a question, seeing if there is some consistency.




What consistency does there have to be on the question?

The god says that the deed is such an abomination...people doing it should be put to death.

That is a pretty clear statement of how the god feels about the activity.

Of course, I think the best guess that can be made about the Bible is that it is a collection of stories made up by an ancient people inventing a rather disgusting god.

If that is what you feel...I have no problem with what you asked.

If it is not, I am not sure of what your point is.
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Wed 22 Jan, 2014 04:24 pm
@Romeo Fabulini,
Romeo Fabulini wrote:

Quote:
Frank Apisa said: Sounds like a pretty sick god...and anyone who would worship this god ought to have his/her mind examined.

Which bit of this is sick mate?-
Jesus said-"Love one another, feed the hungry, house the homeless, clothe the destitute, tend the sick, visit the prisoners, look after the poor" (Mark 12:30, John 13:34, Matt 25: 37-40)

(and remember those were God's own words spoken through Jesus's mouth)-
Jesus said - "For I have not spoken on my own authority; but the Father who sent me gave me a command, what I should say and what I should speak" (John 12:49)



Well, Romeo, I was think more along the lines of:

“If a man lies with a male as with a woman, both of them shall be put to death for their abominable deed; they have forfeited their lives.” Leviticus 20-13


"Slaves, male and female, you may indeed possess, provided you BUY them from among the neighboring nations. You may also BUY them from among the aliens who reside with you and from their children who are born and reared in your land. Such slaves YOU MAY OWN AS CHATTELS, and leave to your sons as their hereditary property, MAKING THEM PERPETUAL SLAVES. But you shall not lord it harshly over any of the Israelites, your kinsmen." Leviticus 25:44ff

"If a man has a stubborn and unruly son who will not listen to
his father or mother, and will not obey them even though they
chastise him, his father and mother shall have him apprehended
and brought out to the elders at the gate of his home city, where
...his fellow citizens shall stone him to death." Deuteronomy 22:18ff

"When you march up to attack a city, first offer terms of peace.
If it agrees to your terms of peace and opens its gates to you,
all the people to be found in it shall serve you in forced labor.
But if it refuses to make peace with you and instead offers you
battle, lay siege to it, and when the Lord, your God, delivers it
into your hand, put every male in it to the sword, but the women
and children and livestock and all else in it that is worth
plunder you may take as your booty and you may use this plunder
of your enemies which the Lord, your God, has given you." Deuteronomy 20:10

"I, the Lord, your God, am a jealous God, inflicting punishments
for their fathers' wickedness on the children of those who hate
me, down to the third and fourth generation." Deuteronomy 5:9

"Therefore, he who has any of the following defects may not come
forward: he who is blind, or lame, or who has any disfigurement
or malformation, or crippled foot or hand....he may not approach
the veil nor go up to the altar on account of these defects; he
shall not profane these things that are sacred to me, for it is
I, the Lord, who make them sacred." Leviticus 21:18ff

They entered into a covenant to seek the Lord, the God of their fathers, with all their heart and soul; and everyone who would not seek the Lord, the God of Israel, was to be put to death, whether small or great, whether man or woman. [2 Chronicles 15:12-13]


If your own full brother, or your son or daughter, or your beloved wife, or you intimate friend, entices you secretly to serve other gods, whom you and your fathers have not known, gods of any other nations, near at hand or far away, from one end of the earth to the other: do not yield to him or listen to him, nor look with pity upon him, to spare or shield him, but kill him. Your hand shall be the first raised to slay him; the rest of the people shall join in with you. You shall stone him to death, because he sought to lead you astray from the Lord, your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, that place of slavery. And all Israel, hearing of this, shall fear and never do such evil as this in your midst. [Deuteronomy 13:7-12]


Suppose you hear in one of the towns the LORD your God is giving you that some worthless rabble among you have led their fellow citizens astray by encouraging them to worship foreign gods. In such cases, you must examine the facts carefully. If you find it is true and can prove that such a detestable act has occurred among you, you must attack that town and completely destroy all its inhabitants, as well as all the livestock. Then you must pile all the plunder in the middle of the street and burn it. Put the entire town to the torch as a burnt offering to the LORD your God. That town must remain a ruin forever; it may never be rebuilt. Keep none of the plunder that has been set apart for destruction. Then the LORD will turn from his fierce anger and be merciful to you. He will have compassion on you and make you a great nation, just as he solemnly promised your ancestors. "The LORD your God will be merciful only if you obey him and keep all the commands I am giving you today, doing what is pleasing to him." [Deuteronomy 13:13-19]


The LORD then gave these further instructions to Moses: 'Tell the people of Israel to keep my Sabbath day, for the Sabbath is a sign of the covenant between me and you forever. It helps you to remember that I am the LORD, who makes you holy. Yes, keep the Sabbath day, for it is holy. Anyone who desecrates it must die; anyone who works on that day will be cut off from the community. Work six days only, but the seventh day must be a day of total rest. I repeat: Because the LORD considers it a holy day, anyone who works on the Sabbath must be put to death.' [Exodus 31:12-15]



One day a man who had an Israelite mother and an Egyptian father got into a fight with one of the Israelite men. During the fight, this son of an Israelite woman blasphemed the LORD's name. So the man was brought to Moses for judgment. His mother's name was Shelomith. She was the daughter of Dibri of the tribe of Dan. They put the man in custody until the LORD's will in the matter should become clear. Then the LORD said to Moses, "Take the blasphemer outside the camp, and tell all those who heard him to lay their hands on his head. Then let the entire community stone him to death. Say to the people of Israel: Those who blaspheme God will suffer the consequences of their guilt and be punished. Anyone who blasphemes the LORD's name must be stoned to death by the whole community of Israel. Any Israelite or foreigner among you who blasphemes the LORD's name will surely die. [Leviticus 24:10-16]


For God commanded, saying, Honour thy father and mother: and, He that curseth father or mother, let him die the death. [Matthew 15:4-7]
informateur
 
  0  
Reply Wed 22 Jan, 2014 04:37 pm
@Frank Apisa,
As I sit here and think to myself. Aliens.
0 Replies
 
Romeo Fabulini
 
  1  
Reply Wed 22 Jan, 2014 04:39 pm
Frankie baby, the ancient primitive tribes HAD to have their asses kicked by God to make them toe the line because it was the only language they understood, served 'em right..Smile
Cue one of my stunning articles-

SCHOOLS OUT FOREVER by Mick
People wonder why the Old Testament was so harsh. The answer is that God has never changed, but the way he had to package himself to get his message across HAS changed, he had to talk in harsh primitive OT terms to earlier harsh primitive peoples in their own harsh "language" like a strict headteacher to get their attention.
"The law brought us to Christ like a schoolmaster,but now through Christ we are not under that schoolmaster" (Gal 3:22-25)
"In the past God overlooked such ignorance, but now he commands all people everywhere to repent"- (Acts 17:30)

Likewise, when Riker joined Klingon vessel Pagh on an exchange visit as 1st Officer he had to punch and throw mutinous Klingon 2nd Officer Klag across the bridge to get the attention and respect of him and the rest of the crew.

When God felt the time was right to package himself in a softer way to more advanced peoples, he beamed down Jesus who came not to abolish the OT wholesale, but to show us how to apply its rules with enlightened goodnatured commonsense.
Right Klag?

"Grrrr.."
http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g64/PoorOldSpike/klagB.gif
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Wed 22 Jan, 2014 04:54 pm
@Romeo Fabulini,
Romeo Fabulini wrote:

Frankie baby, the ancient primitive tribes HAD to have their asses kicked by God to make them toe the line because it was the only language they understood, served 'em right..Smile
Cue one of my stunning articles-

SCHOOLS OUT FOREVER by Mick
People wonder why the Old Testament was so harsh. The answer is that God has never changed, but the way he had to package himself to get his message across HAS changed, he had to talk in harsh primitive OT terms to earlier harsh primitive peoples in their own harsh "language" like a strict headteacher to get their attention.
"The law brought us to Christ like a schoolmaster,but now through Christ we are not under that schoolmaster" (Gal 3:22-25)
"In the past God overlooked such ignorance, but now he commands all people everywhere to repent"- (Acts 17:30)

Likewise, when Riker joined Klingon vessel Pagh on an exchange visit as 1st Officer he had to punch and throw mutinous Klingon 2nd Officer Klag across the bridge to get the attention and respect of him and the rest of the crew.

When God felt the time was right to package himself in a softer way to more advanced peoples, he beamed down Jesus who came not to abolish the OT wholesale, but to show us how to apply its rules with enlightened goodnatured commonsense.
Right Klag?

"Grrrr.."
http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g64/PoorOldSpike/klagB.gif


But it describes a god...that Jesus worshiped, Romeo.

There really is no getting past that.

The New Testament tells us that Jesus called the god his father...and he worshiped him.



0 Replies
 
Romeo Fabulini
 
  1  
Reply Wed 22 Jan, 2014 05:07 pm
Quote:
Frank Apisa said: But it describes a god...that Jesus worshiped, Romeo. There really is no getting past that.
The New Testament tells us that Jesus called the god his father...and he worshiped him.

So what? All true Christians are God's blue-eyed boys and gals-
“I will be a Father to you, and you will be my sons and daughters.."-2 Cor 6:14-18)
and they have nothing at all to fear from him because CHRISTIANS DIE LAUGHING..Smile

But for everybody else, they're gonna get payback, seems fair to me because God's not some wishy-washy social worker-
"How much more severely do you think a man deserves to be punished who has trampled the Son of God under foot,....it is a dreadful thing to fall into the hands of the living God" (Heb 10:29-31)

http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g64/PoorOldSpike/fury.gif
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Wed 22 Jan, 2014 05:17 pm
@Romeo Fabulini,
Romeo Fabulini wrote:

Quote:
Frank Apisa said: But it describes a god...that Jesus worshiped, Romeo. There really is no getting past that.
The New Testament tells us that Jesus called the god his father...and he worshiped him.

So what? All true Christians are God's blue-eyed boys and gals-
“I will be a Father to you, and you will be my sons and daughters.."-2 Cor 6:14-18)
and they have nothing at all to fear from him because CHRISTIANS DIE LAUGHING..Smile

But for everybody else, they're gonna get payback, seems fair to me because God's not some wishy-washy social worker-
"How much more severely do you think a man deserves to be punished who has trampled the Son of God under foot,....it is a dreadful thing to fall into the hands of the living God" (Heb 10:29-31)

http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g64/PoorOldSpike/fury.gif


Jesus worshiped the god, Romeo.

And Jesus probably looked more like Myron Cohen than Tab Hunter.

No getting past that.
0 Replies
 
Romeo Fabulini
 
  1  
Reply Wed 22 Jan, 2014 05:38 pm
Quote:
Frank Apisa said: Jesus worshiped the god, Romeo.
And Jesus probably looked more like Myron Cohen than Tab Hunter.
No getting past that.

God's going to sling the human trash into hell on judgement day--murderers, peedos, rapists, thieves, con men, corrupt politicians, crooked TV evangelists, perverts, terrorists, Jesus-rejecters etc) and I got no beef with that, they had their chance..Smile
If you want a soft God you better go find yourself a fairy queen to worship, and if you think Jesus is all "meek and mild", you'll have to get yourself another boy!
Hey in your Air Force days you were quite prepared to punish the Rooskis with your WMD's if they asked for it, there ya go, YEEEE-HAAW..Smile

http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g64/PoorOldSpike/Maj-Kong_zpsf4348c7f.jpg~original
informateur
 
  0  
Reply Wed 22 Jan, 2014 05:41 pm
@Romeo Fabulini,
You are a sad individual.
Romeo Fabulini
 
  1  
Reply Wed 22 Jan, 2014 05:46 pm
@informateur,
I hope you're not a commie mate! Careful or we'll send Frank "Major Kong" Apisa to get you..Smile
0 Replies
 
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Wed 22 Jan, 2014 06:14 pm
@Romeo Fabulini,
Romeo Fabulini wrote:

Quote:
Frank Apisa said: Jesus worshiped the god, Romeo.
And Jesus probably looked more like Myron Cohen than Tab Hunter.
No getting past that.

God's going to sling the human trash into hell on judgement day--murderers, peedos, rapists, thieves, con men, corrupt politicians, crooked TV evangelists, perverts, terrorists, Jesus-rejecters etc) and I got no beef with that, they had their chance..Smile
If you want a soft God you better go find yourself a fairy queen to worship, and if you think Jesus is all "meek and mild", you'll have to get yourself another boy!
Hey in your Air Force days you were quite prepared to punish the Rooskis with your WMD's if they asked for it, there ya go, YEEEE-HAAW..Smile

http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g64/PoorOldSpike/Maj-Kong_zpsf4348c7f.jpg~original



Jesus worshiped the god of the Old Testament...called the god "his father."

neologist
 
  1  
Reply Wed 22 Jan, 2014 06:39 pm
@BeHereNow,
BeHereNow wrote:
Your ignorance of the bible precedes you.
RE: http://able2know.org/topic/231656-2#post-5557085


I take you to be no expert, only one who has a particular viewpoint, and myopic at best.
Thanks for the offer.
What offer?

You are the one who has yet to advance any scripture to refute my assertions. Romeo and Frank at least give it a try.
Romeo Fabulini
 
  1  
Reply Wed 22 Jan, 2014 07:02 pm
Quote:
Frank Apisa said: Jesus worshiped the god of the Old Testament...called the god "his father."

So what? The OT God was a kickass God, nobody better mess with him..Wink

Sodom/Gomorrah getting it-
http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g64/PoorOldSpike/sodom-gomorrah_zps70dc427c.jpg~original
0 Replies
 
neologist
 
  1  
Reply Wed 22 Jan, 2014 07:13 pm
@Frank Apisa,
Frank Apisa wrote:
Jesus worshiped the god of the Old Testament...called the god "his father."
Perhaps he saw something which has escaped you, Frank.

I'll bet he did.
mikeymojo
 
  1  
Reply Wed 22 Jan, 2014 09:19 pm
@neologist,
neologist wrote:

mikeymojo wrote:
And the Bible states that Hell is A Lake of Fire, which seems lazy and hillbilly-ish to me.
Revelation 21:8 refers to the lake that burns with fire and sulfur. This means the second death...The Bible speaks in a number of places that there will be a resurrection of the righteous and the unrighteous. (See, for example, John 5:28,29) During this resurrection, all will be judged according to their deeds. Those not willing to submit to God's sovereignty will experience the second death. Note that death and hades were also thrown into the lake of fire in Revelation 20:14, joining Satan, sent there in the 10th verse. The lake of fire is a final destruction.

Yes, that's what the Bible tells us. Which is my point. The God in the Bible is a complete reflection of how Man is. It's why Man justifies the actions Man commits, because God supposedly does them. If it's ok for Bible God to scorch non believers with sulfur and fire and death, then it's ok for Man to scorch and do horrible things to other men who are non believers to a particular way (which are many to Man). Bible God also promotes an Absolute Monarchy as a standard of government, with Bible God being King **** and everything and everyone else being peasants, only there to worship His greatness. Man has been known to instill Absolute Monarchy as government throughout history. Hell it still happens today in some countries. Point is, Man can get away with the things they do because Man wrote a book saying its ok to do those things because their "God" does them. Again, if God exists God is nothing like what the Bible portrays God to be. Like Hell, God would be the last thing anyone would ever think It to be. That's just my logic of God.
neologist
 
  1  
Reply Thu 23 Jan, 2014 01:51 am
@mikeymojo,
Yeah, but since the dead are not conscious, your concern makes no sense
 

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