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Does finite sin deserve infinite punishment?

 
 
neologist
 
  1  
Reply Mon 20 Jan, 2014 10:48 pm
@mikeymojo,
Sort of like Sartre's No Exit, eh?
But since the dead are not conscious, that could not take place.
mikeymojo
 
  0  
Reply Mon 20 Jan, 2014 11:03 pm
@neologist,
Rebirth could tackle that. Death in Hell would be a rebirth in Hell, again not knowing that they are in Hell.
anonymously99
 
  1  
Reply Mon 20 Jan, 2014 11:38 pm
@mikeymojo,
Where the hell did mikeymojo come from?
anonymously99stwin
 
  1  
Reply Tue 21 Jan, 2014 12:14 am
@anonymously99,
Anonymously99 means you came from no where mikeymojo. No harm/offense intended.
0 Replies
 
anonymously99stwin
 
  1  
Reply Tue 21 Jan, 2014 12:17 am
@neologist,
Romeo Fabulini has been hurting anonymously99's feelings for going on a daily basis now it seems. He really needs to back off neo. Since the two of you are friends. Well acquainted.
neologist
 
  1  
Reply Tue 21 Jan, 2014 01:07 am
@mikeymojo,
mikeymojo wrote:
Rebirth could tackle that. Death in Hell would be a rebirth in Hell, again not knowing that they are in Hell.
HMM!
Rebirth is not a possibility supported by the Bible.
IMHO, of course.
neologist
 
  1  
Reply Tue 21 Jan, 2014 01:08 am
@anonymously99stwin,
I don't think Romeo likes me all that much.
anonymously99
 
  0  
Reply Tue 21 Jan, 2014 02:01 am
@neologist,
Oh? But. The both of you believe in the same alien. god.
Calamity Dal
 
  2  
Reply Tue 21 Jan, 2014 04:48 am
@anonymously99,
See they both believe in a god Anon, but they both seem to have very different gods. Where Romeo believes in a god with no standards, and a sick sense of justice, Neo believes in a god that has left man on his own to prove a point.
mikeymojo
 
  1  
Reply Tue 21 Jan, 2014 05:47 am
@neologist,
neologist wrote:

mikeymojo wrote:
Rebirth could tackle that. Death in Hell would be a rebirth in Hell, again not knowing that they are in Hell.
HMM!
Rebirth is not a possibility supported by the Bible.
IMHO, of course.

And the Bible states that Hell is A Lake of Fire, which seems lazy and hillbilly-ish to me. All the Bible does is turn the notion of God into what Man WANTS God to be. Sorry neo God could exist and be nothing like what religion's portray God to be. In fact, I'd bet the bank that God is nothing like how the Bible Torah and Koran portray God to be. Those books are HUMAN PROPAGANDA at its best (or worst).
anonymously99
 
  0  
Reply Tue 21 Jan, 2014 06:30 am
@Calamity Dal,
You see men. To me arguing or talking about whether god exists and whatever the hell else there is to bicker about makes no sense to me. Honestly. I've never cared when it came to religion. It never mattered to me. God no god hell I don't know. Alien(s)? Lost in thought no I'm not what.. the hell. Alien. No. No alien(s). Shut the hell up I tell myself. Really I don't care. No sense. Makes no sense. Nothing. Back to the point. Um god. Yeah religion. Never cared. Doesn't matter. So I threw up love and law I believe in. As I think.. yeah I had to say I believed in something didn't I. Sounds strange of me to say I believe in the weather. The weather of which I think we came from. There I go caring what others think. Well **** that. I don't give a ****. Without weather what would this planet be? Not earth.
anonymously99
 
  0  
Reply Tue 21 Jan, 2014 06:32 am
@anonymously99,
To me. I make sense.
Romeo Fabulini
 
  0  
Reply Tue 21 Jan, 2014 10:48 am
Quote:
Smileyrius asked: If two interpretations of a scripture can be made, one unites that scripture with the rest of the bible, and the other contradicts it, which interpretation is likely to be misleading?
Romeo, is the bible as a collective contradictory?

Jesus overuled/contradicted much of the Old T's harshness such as when he trashed the old "eye for eye".
If in doubt about conflicting verses, use your own commonsense and look at things in context, but above all remember JESUS SAVES, not the Old T..Smile
"The covenant of which Jesus is mediator is superior to the old one" (Hebrews 8:6)
Romeo Fabulini
 
  1  
Reply Tue 21 Jan, 2014 11:02 am
Quote:
Anonymously claimed: Suicide may be an unforgivable sin...

Nah mate, Jesus said ALL sins are forgiven (except badmouthing the holy spirit) (Matt 12:31)..Smile
Anyway nowhere does the Bible say suicide is a sin, but I don't think God would like us to do it without very very good reason!

I was prompted to do some research a few years ago into exactly what the Bible says about suicide after a group of West Indian "Christians" handed out "Suicide Is a Sin" leaflets to passersby in Leicester (England) city centre.
I took one of their leaflets home and was appalled to see it said "if you kill yourself you will go to hell".
I thought "Nah they can't be right", and after researching the Bible i saw they were very wrong!
I phoned them up and asked them to give me any specific verses to back up their claim, but they couldn't!
The guy said "Er... let me ask a few of my colleagues and phone you back later.."
When he called back he admitted there are no specific verses, and all he could come up with was "The Bible says thou shalt not kill, and that also means thou shalt not kill yourself".
Obviously that was just their interpretation, their guess..

I searched the Bible high and low for myself, and like i said, it never condemns suicide one way or another, not even Jesus mentioned it.
Certainly some people got a bit fed up at times but then don't we all Smile
"Elijah came to a broom tree, sat down under it and prayed that he might die. "I have had enough, Lord ," he said. "Take my life; I am no better than my ancestors." Then he lay down under the tree and fell asleep.
All at once an angel touched him and said, "Get up and eat." (1 Kings 19:3-7)

A moral of that is:- "Cheer up, put the kettle on, do yourself a sandwich, plonk yourself in front of the TV with your feet up and soldier on if you can.."
"The night is nearly over, day is almost here" (Rom 13:12)

There are seven suicides in the Bible-
1 - Abimelech, in Judges 9:54. A woman dropped a millstone upon him. Recognizing that he was mortally wounded, he commanded his armour-bearer to slay him. Even though he did not die at his own hands, he did die at his own word.
2 - Samson in Judges 16:28 killed himself. He prayed and God gave him strength to pull down the support columns of the temple. This caused the death of many of the leading Philistines but it also caused his own death.
3 - Saul is another. Seeing that death would be slow in coming and that the Philistines might capture him while he still had some life and torture him, he commands his armour-bearer to finish him off with a sword. The armour-bearer refused. Whereupon Saul falls upon his own sword.
4 - Saul's armourbearer then kills himself too.
5 - Ahithrophel in 2 Samuel 17:23 hanged himself.
6 - Zimri in 1 Kings 16 barricaded himself in the palace and burned it down with himself inside.
7 - And of course, Judas hung himself..
neologist
 
  1  
Reply Tue 21 Jan, 2014 11:18 am
@mikeymojo,
mikeymojo wrote:
And the Bible states that Hell is A Lake of Fire, which seems lazy and hillbilly-ish to me.
Revelation 21:8 refers to the lake that burns with fire and sulfur. This means the second death...The Bible speaks in a number of places that there will be a resurrection of the righteous and the unrighteous. (See, for example, John 5:28,29) During this resurrection, all will be judged according to their deeds. Those not willing to submit to God's sovereignty will experience the second death. Note that death and hades were also thrown into the lake of fire in Revelation 20:14, joining Satan, sent there in the 10th verse. The lake of fire is a final destruction.
neologist
 
  1  
Reply Tue 21 Jan, 2014 11:19 am
@anonymously99,
anonymously99 wrote:
To me. I make sense.
That's a plus.
0 Replies
 
Smileyrius
 
  2  
Reply Tue 21 Jan, 2014 11:24 am
@Romeo Fabulini,
Given the choice between scriptural harmony and interpretations that rely on scriptural cherry picking, I am afraid I will settle for the former my friend.

The second you dismiss a single scripture you are in essence leaning on your own understanding. When in a fix, proverbs 3: 5,6
neologist
 
  1  
Reply Tue 21 Jan, 2014 11:51 am
@Romeo Fabulini,
Romeo Fabulini wrote:
... .Jesus overuled/contradicted much of the Old T's harshness such as when he trashed the old "eye for eye".. .
Jesus fulfilled and terminated the law. But he did not remove or contradict the law itself. It is still needed to identify the Christ and understand the remainder of the scriptures. -Galatians 3:25
0 Replies
 
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Tue 21 Jan, 2014 12:14 pm
@BeHereNow,
BeHereNow wrote:

You do not seem to understand that there are various religions, each with their own belief structure, even atheists are not monolithic in their lack of belief in any religion, and what that entails.

I can not tell how deep your ignorance runs, so excuse me for stating what may be obvious to the informed, and new information to the ignorant.

The book of Solomon is Old Testament, so has special meaning for only Judeo-Christian religions, and particularly Judaism. Christians have adopted Old Testament teachings as background for their religion, but put very different meanings on the writings their Saviour studied while walking the earth.
Information is not the same to all observers.
Information entails subjective interpretation.

It is true that Jesus was a Jew, and it is true that many teachings of the various sects of Christianity seem to ignore this fact, still, it should go without saying that Christians do not view much of the Old Testament the same as Jews. - DUH!

If we want to discuss the teachings of Solomon, we would be ignorant to not do so in the light of Jewish beliefs and teachings.
On the point of heaven and hell, of the fruits of sin, Jews and Christians do not agree.
If you are Jewish, reading Solomon is fine, if you are Christian, you will do better with Paul. Just the way things are.

The teachings of Solomon are not inconsistent with Judaism.

Maybe this will help:
"We do believe in a type of Hell, but not the one found in cartoons and joke books. Hell is not a punishment in the conventional sense; it is, in fact, the expression of a great kindness.
The Jewish mystics described a spiritual place called “Gehinnom.” This is usually translated as “Hell,” but a better translation would be “the Supernal Washing Machine.” Because that’s exactly how it works. The way our soul is cleansed in Gehinnom is similar to the way our clothes are cleansed in a washing machine.
Put yourself in your socks’ shoes, so to speak. If you were to be thrown into boiling hot water and flung around for half an hour, you might start to feel that someone doesn’t like you. However, the fact is that it is only after going through a wash cycle that the socks can be worn again."

If you want to find fault with Christian teaching being inconsistent with Judaism - Hello! - Christians are waiting for the Second Coming of the savior, Jews are waiting for the First Coming, but I realize you probably did not know that.

Hope this helps.

And as a footnote, I do need to add that a Christian is offered eternal Bliss (hardly something to be dreaded), for simply asking for it.
A Christian is expected to be Sinful, but hell is not required, or expected, to be in their Eternal future.

Does sin deserve infinite Bliss? - that would have been a more relevant question to pose - if you understood the Christian perspective.
But then, you don't, you only think you do, and that is a definition of ignorance.


One of the things I find most curious about Christians...is how easily they are able to dismiss the sensitivities of the god Jesus worshiped.
0 Replies
 
Calamity Dal
 
  2  
Reply Tue 21 Jan, 2014 12:24 pm
@Romeo Fabulini,
Good reason for suicide? Ha ha ha, that's good one.

Your god has no standards mick. Disappointing.
 

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