Do you beleive in god?

I love this logic; because we have a Swiss pocket watch, it proves creation.

Jora, Ironlion, mesquite, Chain where are u guys?

Is my post flawed? I need criticisms.

Sorry for the delay. Life got crazy.

Qkid,
Actually, Cephus was the one who asked the "who created god?" question, not me. I admitted that I thought that everything on earth (and beyond) has been created, but I don't believe that that has to mean it has an all powerful "creator." On the one hand you could look at it like: a cake does not make itself, it has someone there to mix it's ingredients. But then, on the other hand, life and nature are hardly a cake. When it rains, it is due to hydrogen and oxygen combining, not because god made water droplets out of thin air and ordered them to fall upon the ground.
With the help of scientific evidence I can trace many of our organisms' origins. But further back from that, once you get into the really confusing question of what started all those chain reactions (yes, by chain reactions I am speaking of evolution), there's no way for me (or anyone else) to offer up any kind of legitimate answer. Hell, maybe the answer is that those chemicals, dust particles, and gases etc. were always and will always be floating around our universe (and possibly other universes) waiting to combine and thus....create. I'm waiting for......!proof!, and right now I'm seeing scientific proof as the most reliable, so I'm going to stick with them. Maybe they'll explain it, maybe they won't. But I don't want to go with a simple unproven answer. And I especially don't want to be told that I can't ask any questions, that I simply must have "faith." That sounds sort of like when a parent says to their child, "don't argue with me." As in, "don't work to prove me wrong" (at least, that how my mother interpreted it). If it is wrong, I certainly want to know about it. That's why I'm questioning religion so heavily. And so far, it looks like I've been shown that it's facts, if you can call them that, just don't add up.

C.I.

Cute, ignore the meat of the message so that you can poke fun at the communication method.

I truely see no logic in the other option, although my life would be easier if I did.
You are asking me to through out laws of physics that are testable, lack of fossil record information, problems with mutation randomization, problems with Evolution process theory (loosely called, survival of the fitess). All becasue you do not want to believe in a 'superior' being. Logic to me is when you take the evidence at hand and conclude something based on that knowledge, dispite what the conclusion. So yes, Logically I believe in God.

jpyles, Most of the people on this planet also believed the earth was flat. That was also "logical."

Interesting CI,

So if you do not use 'logic' as a basis for belief, what then do you personally use as a basis for what you have choosen to believe?



JP

I personally believe that all one needs to do is to treat all living things with respect and dignity. All else falls into place. Don't need no church dogma to tell me what's right or wrong. That's logic - to me.

I believe in God, however, I don't believe in religion, men, church or anything down that path.

Well well well. U see, same thing happens. Again and again and again. Jora, bro, dont you realize what has happened? You see I went out to prove something. I presented everything and explicitely asked all of you, especially you JORA to refute me. Show me point by point where my arguments are incorrect. I am open to criticisms. BUt what has happened? You didnt reply back. Instead you start talking about how you need scientific proof. You really dont know how I feel on this side. The point was for you to refute my points. If you cannot, then please admit to it. I am still waiting for all of your replies to my points. I need to see if there is any flaws to my arguments.

Jpyles,
Instead of using logic, I use rational.

What happened guys? I waited over a week and still no replies? What happened to all those guys I named out like JORA. Where did u guys go? I guess I have won this thread since noone has replied to me. So I end with the conclusion that there is a creator of this universe.

If anyone wants to reply to this then please read from the begining of the thread so get the full context before you start typing. This will only allow me to not reapeat everything over again. Thank you. There is a creator.

I still haven't seen any satisfactory answer to:

How did God get created? Did It create Itself?

Maybe an entire civilization evolved to perfection, and then they started assigning jurisdictions in the universe.

I can see us being seen as godlike to less evolved but intelligent life. Or even to primitive man considering technology. It's not that far of a stretch. If it hasn't already been done, then we'll do it ourselves eventually.

When my nephew was six years old he asked me that question I didn't have an answer then and I still don't. He said at the age of six that's why he didn't believe in God. I was taken aback a little at this conversation from him at so young an age. I never even thought such deep thoughts until just a few years ago and I am thirty nine.

However, no matter how you slice it, something was either here for ever whether it two molecules ( whatever)or God or this earth and everything else just has been here forever; but something was here forever because you can't get something out of nothing.

The Times of London
(This link may be behind subscription.)

bm

"Atheist becomes Theist"

I vote "no" for i really do not know any evidence to prove the GOD thing.

But i am really wanna vote a "yes" because i always believe that human have to believe in something like a god.

From what I see...Flew was not an atheist earlier...he was an agnostic.

He still seems to be an agnostic...although he is guessing these days.

Previously Flew called himself a "Negative Atheist."