Do you beleive in god?

no

Qkid,
Regarding that same subject, you never did respond to this post, which I addressed to you.

Mesquite,
I dont see how this thread is on the same subject as the old one.

Qkid, By the same subject, I was referring to "talking about your religion". In the other thread you wrote:

Which sounds like Islam encourages you to proselytize.

Then in this thread, you wrote:

Mesquite,

what i meant was that Islam requires us to spread it. We must spread it. So it cannot only be personal. Maybe the word "interfaith" was not a good choice of words.

The only way I'll believe in God (or any other divine being for that matter) is if he appears before me (and a bunch of other people at the same time, just so I know I'm not crazy) and says "guess what, I'm real."
For me, I need solid proof. Not just others saying they have faith in it, or a book talking about it. I mean, think of alllll the religions that have ever been. How are we supposed to know that christianity is the right one out of all the millions? If you say: "I just have faith in it," well, don't those other people have absolute faith in theirs, too?
Anyways, that's just my opinion. Nothing more.

jora,

So u want solid proof right?? Well that can be done but first i have some things to say about your flawed way of thinking.

You say that the only way u would believe in God is if u saw Him right?? Well let me ask u a question. Whenever u see a car pass down the street, do u say "Wow look at that car, it just appeared out of nothing" No u would never say such a thing. Why?? Because u know that the car was created at a certain time and place. It couldnt have apperared out of no where. When u study everything around you, including the universe, you see that everything has been created. For you to say that u must see something inorder to believe it exists is stupid. Let me ask u another question, can u see your brain? NO!!!! Therefore i conclude that your brain does not exist because I cant see it. Do u see where your thinking is flawed??

Also if something exists then it MUST have been created. What is the universe?? Its a bunch of celestial bodies right?? Well all these celestial bodies were also created at one point because they exist. If u say that it does not have to be created, then I say u are wrong. Why?? Because it is out of your reality to make a judgement that if something exists it was not created at one point. Where is your evidence to say such a thing? You have none. But what I am saying is DEFINITE because everything that exists in our reality(man, life and universe) was created. So if everything in the universe is created then there must be a Creator to it. All the evidence is around u. Study it. U can come to the conclusion that there is a creator.

The holy Quran presents these arguments. In some places it tells us to
look around us and study creation. How there is order. And to keep looking at the universe until your eyes start to hurt and u finally have to look back. That u wont find any flaws in His Creation.

I hope I have made some clicks.

Whoa---relax, QKid. As I said it is just my opinion.

Oh yah---and when I say I want visual proof that's not specifically what I'm talking about. All I mean is that I want a lot of proof.

Boy, I can't stop responding to this post----

The human race has always seen a beginning in life. A man and woman get together and create a child. So our race has always been led to believe that something must have created us. When religions were formed, a long time ago, many people were lonely and confused and looking for an answer. Also many people were not educated, ate poorly, and had no medicine. A person who hears voices is considered mentally ill to us today, but back then that person would have been one of the guys. The human race wanted an answer, and wouldn't settle for anything other than what they needed to hear. That we're not alone, that someone will always love us, that we have a purpose, and that death is not the end. Our race was bound to form religions.
I'm not saying I have a problem with religion. I understand religion. But when others tell me that my way of thinking is "flawed", "stupid", and wrong, then it becomes a problem. People need to stop with the petty name calling, and learn to accept other opinions and views, and don't take it personally. Even if they don't agree with them. I chose not to believe anyone, not without real proof, and you know what I mean by proof.

Jora,

Well u wanted proof. I presented it. You have not replied to it. Please disprove what I said. Wat I said in my post was my proof. And you cant deny it. If u can, then please refute it.

Now I dont care about your opinions on religion. Thats really nice. We all have our own opinions. Look lets start at the base before telling me about the other religions. U dont even believe in a God. So lets begin there, make sense huh????

And no I dont know what u mean by "real proof". But I presented DEFINITE proof. Where as u are presenting your opinions. So I will be waiting on your reply to refute my proof.

First off, "u" is not a word. Using "u" as a word just makes you look like an idiot.



I'll settle for objective evidence, of which none exists, apparently or someone would have presented it in the last 20+ years I've been debating religion.



No, but I see where you're using just about every logical fallacy in the book. Come on, they teach better logic than this in grade school!



Great, then what created God?

This is just pathetic! At least TRY some basic logic!

LOL----Actually, Cephus described what I was thinking perfectly. How have you offered DEFINITE proof? To me, that doesn't make any sense. WHAT proof exactly? Seriously, what? Is your "definite proof" what you said about everything existing, therefore it must have a creator? It seems everything that is here was created. Yes. (I never said otherwise) Science has led us to believe this! But how does anyone know for sure that it is a god doing all of that? Why can't it be something else? Something our tiny human minds could not possibly even begin to understand. The point is, no one knows for sure either way. It's just that science and evolution have more evidence backing them (right now anyway) than does religion. Yes, it is true that I am not religious, but that's because no one has given me good enough reason to be as of yet. I'm sort of sitting on the fence between the two. Hey, if I die and I go to some kind of an afterlife, it would be silly of me to say then that it didn't exist. But, I have not died yet. So in the meantime, science and evolution have proved themselves (through careful studies performed again and again, not by a book or a feeling saying it's true) to be worthy of being considered truth. Or at least the closest thing there is to truth.
Please disprove what you said? There is no real way to fully disprove anything really. Just stronger evidence in some areas than others. Right now, it seems to be science. If you want to hear me say what my proof is against religion, it would be the fact that there is no proof for it. Hopefully you know what I'm saying (you don't have to agree, of course). If not, well, I'm afraid we're just going to end up going around in circles with this.
(Oh, and the reason I keep using the word "opinion" when I'm referring to how I feel, is because that's all anyone can have. I don't have a superiority complex. And I'm not going to go around saying I know everything. I try to keep my mind open to new possibilities. There are times, like these, where I am almost totally convinced about something being truth or not, but there's still a part of me that I leave a little bit open. Just in case. And yes, that includes religion. If it shows itself to be true, I'll embrace it.)

*Sigh* Part of me hates these kind of discussions. They tend to go nowhere. I can no more change your mind than you can change mine.

He's offered nothing but long-disproven, irrational, ignorant arguments (to go along with his ignorant command of the English language).



Most of the time they do go nowhere because you can't change the mind of the deluded. It's no different than arguing with a kid about Santa Claus. No matter what you say, their faith is stronger than any fact and it's ultimately pointless.

I remember my little brother once figured out how Santa managed to deliver all those presents in one night, it was because of all the different time-zones (that gave him about another year of belief). awwww..

Cephus,

Wow bro, then that must make u so smart. U realized my gramatical errors. I didnt know we had English teachers here. You know what, I say that u are using all the fallacies in the world in your reply. Every point u mentioned is wrong. Right now u are probably asking where are my mistakes right? Well I am asking the same thing. U just said that I am using every logical fallacy in the book. Well if so, then please point them out to me. Dont just say that I am wrong. Show me where I am wrong.

And your question of "Who creeated God". Wow, I know that u know much better than that.

Jora,
Forget the word God for now. I think this is what messes up many people. All I am saying is that there is a creator. Dont even bring evolution. It has about 0% evidence right now. Just look into the DNA part of evolution. U also said that stronger evidence is what is needed, well then bring your stronger evidence to go against creationism.

QKid, The reason evolution has zero evidence for you results from your inability to read the many studies done that proves evolution is in constant flux.

Do any of the Creationists have any evidence to support their claim that every species of creature that ever flew/swam/walked the planet once co-existed simultaneously?

Moo, Welcome to A2K. Your q is easy to answer for christians; god can do anything he pleases. All animals started with both sexes; only man needed to have a woman created from a man's rib; the only time in (fiction) history where a man is responsible for the "birth" of a woman. of coarse, later in the story, we have a "virgin" birth. Miracles of miracles.....we now have artificial insemination.

Well, I know this was a god related discussion ("do you believe in god") but I can put that on hold for now and address one very important issue: Evolution.

You say that there is 0% evidence for this? Uhhhhh......how did you come to that conclusion? Have you even read the evidence? And I'm not talking about skimming here. Reading. Also, what is it you mean by "the DNA part," pray tell? Obviously I know what DNA is, so what I'm asking here is not that you explain the concept of DNA to me, but rather what scientific study surrounding DNA you're referring to. To argue the fact that I think evolution has a lot of evidence tied to it, I bring you these links:

www.gate.net/~rwms/EvoEvidence.html

http://arnica.csustan.edu/biol1010/evidence/evidence.htm

www.nap.edu/html/creationism/index.html

The last link here is a nice site that is also creation friendly. It argues the point that maybe both exist. Now, I know there is a lot here, but I encourage you to read it if you wish to know about evolution's evidence. If you haven't read these arguments (or have just mostly skimmed over them), then you have little right to bring "0%" to the table. Also Qkid you said to bring my stronger evidence against creationism? I already did in my last post by saying that there was no evidence for it. In other words something is sketchy if it has little evidence attached to it. If you wish me to elaborate further I can.

(Feel free to offer me some links of your own, and I will visit them as well. No sense in not being fair about this.)