Do you beleive in god?

Hi jora, Welcome to A2K. One of your links mentions William Smith. When I was visiting the Galapagos Islands last year, I found a book on the boat, "The Map That Changed the World" about William Smith by Simon Winchester. I started to read the book a few days before the end of our trip, so when I got home, I borrowed the book from the local library and finished reading this fascinating book. I highly recommend this book for those interested in geology and evolution. What we learned while spending time on the Galapagos Islands is that there are 14 different finches, and the reasons for the differences found. I'm not going to spill the beans here, but for anyone interested in learning more about evolution, this is an especially revealing proof of evolution. There are currently 100 excited scientists at the Charles Darwin Research Center in the Galapagos studying evolution, because they can witness it before their eyes. c.i.

Compelling stuff, eh Qkid? (at least, that's what I gather from your silence)

I believe in god spelled backwards, and I have positive proof. I'm looking at him right now.

Qkid, despite your protestations to the contrary, there is no proof or logic in your arguments. You wontonly throw these words around in such a mannor that it makes me wonder if you grasp thier simple meaning.

I release a ball and it falls to the ground. I deduce that some force attracted it to the earth. That's logic.

I release a ball and it falls to the ground, prompting me to deduce that a cosmic magician decreed it must be so. That's faith.

If you cannot comprehend this fundamental difference, I suggest you write an angry letter to you GED teacher asserting that he failed to teach you to think critically.

Toodles.

ILZ, Don't be so harsh on Qkid. Those with religious belief must have faith as their primary philosophy for life on this planet, or everything else crumbles into nothingness. Let's face it; most in this world are believers of one religion or another. Agnostics and atheists are in the minority, and we live as if when we die, we die for evermore.

No jora, not compelling at all. The reason I havent said anything is because i dont need to. U see, I have posted many points for my argument of creationism. And if u go back and read, I asked u and and cephus or anyone else to show me where my argument is flawed. Especially cephus because all he did was tell me that my argument is flawed without even showing where I was wrong. I have already made all my points and I asked u to respond to them and show me where I am wrong. But noone has done so. Especially cephus. Why should I even continue talking when noone has responded to my posts on creationism? And then what ends up happeining, the topic takes a U-turn from God to evolution. This is really funny. So jora, I hope u can understand from my point of view. I am still waiting for your response to my posts. Have a nice day.

Qkid, Cephus did show you where you were wrong.

If your only argument for creation is that everything that exists must have a creator, then by that logic the creator must have a creator.....

Well, apparently you have not been reading my posts, Qkid, because I have already showed you how creationism is flawed. I think I may have said this about 3 times already, but here we go again: creationism has no solid evidence attached to it.

But, I can understand your reasons for not wanting to post further on this issue. These discussions can get pretty heavy duty and borderline personal. It's not fair to try to convert someone to a personal view, and I try to avoid in my posts making it sound as if I'm trying to do that. So, just know that with everything I write, that is never my intention.

heee, heee, heee....

But according to the bible, man was created in the image of god. If that is so, how did god nourish his image? Does god have two sex organs? If there was "nothing" before, and god created everything, what was the purpose? How big is god?

I don't know. What does gravity look like?

Gravity is still a mystery - never mind what it looks like.

Exactly.

Welcome to the forum Chain

I love how you think :wink:

~Brooke

YES! I believe in God.

IronLionZion

Sorry I am bring up something that you said some time ago, but I am a newbie. I do not profess to be a know it all, these are just my thoughts on the issue.

You correctly pointed out:

I release a ball and it falls to the ground. I deduce that some force attracted it to the earth. That's logic.

I release a ball and it falls to the ground, prompting me to deduce that a cosmic magician decreed it must be so. That's faith.


I thought: If I have a Swiss pocket watch in my hand how do I suppose it came into existance? "Evolution" or "Creation". In my mind Evolution is faith and Creation is logic. I then considered Mathmatics and probabilities: what is the probability of millions of mutations occuring that would generate such a 'perfectly' alive and cemetrical being, not counting animals and earth..etc. I also attempted to considered those same probabilties of a 'God' creator. Both seemed to require Faith. I see myself as a logically minded guy but both seemed to me to require some level of faith. I am not a brainiac but as I looked more and more into this question I could find arguments both for and against valid. I had tried to keep an open mind on both sides, but I could never get past the issue you brought up above. The Bible says that every man must work out is own salvation, with fear and trembling. Salvation obviously means different things to different people. But at this point in my life I must admit that 'Yes' I believe in God.

Where'd you go, Qkid? I was just starting to really enjoy discussing this topic with you. You have an opinion that is the polar opposite of mine, makes things interesting.

You say I have not responded to your claims regarding creationism. You will see by reading my posts that, in fact, I have. It's just that I'm not saying what you want to hear (or I'm saying something you don't know how to argue against....). And when I brought evidence for evolution, it was because you said that it has 0% proof attached to it. A small diversion from the topic at hand, yes, but still in some way related. I found it interesting that you did not wish to agrue with me about this topic, and did not respond to my presented evidence since you were so passionate about your "0%" belief. Perhaps you cannot refute this? Is your claim based merely on turning a blind eye to the evidence behind things you do not like the sound of? If you can, please prove that I am mistaken.

I didnt know what u guys meant earlier. Now I see that you were serious about who created God question.

Jora,
So i guess that you would have to agree that everything had a creator inorder to ask me this question of who created God then. Well let me ask you a question. The word "create" in our terms means to make something out of nothing. This is what we mean when we use this term in this thread since we are talking about the Creator. So my question is, do u know anythng in the universe that can create something? Is there anything at all that you know can make something out of nothing? Really think about it. The answer ends up being no. There is no such thing in the universe that can create something. So if it was not something in the universe which created the universe, then it must be an external source which created the universe. There is no other choice. So now think about the qualities of the creator. The creator is completely independant from the laws of the universe because it put them in it in the first place. Really think of the power a creator must have, it must be unlimited because we know from the things in the universe that nothing can create something else. Also the creator cannot depend on anything for its existence. If it did, then it would be a part of creation. So using the logic of who created the creator cannot work. You must first think of the qualities of something which can "create".

I voted no. The idea of it is just ludicrous. Heaven. Hell. All of it. I like to think of it as a Santa story where not everyone has been told the REAL truth.