Nelson Mandela dies.

this live sign language fetish needs to go away, the couple of people who get any benefit from it can read the transcript with in the hour (better yet they could learn to read lips), so the cost/benefit analysis result sucks. no doubt the reason that they thought they could get away with fake sign language is that they know that almost no one who can tell the difference between real and fake would be watching. "we are so rich that we can make a show of how much money we are wasting" is pre global economic meltdown behavior.

Yeah - that really works will with bushfire and flood warnings here. Download the transcript in an hour. Sheesh. If the lines are still up and the mobile network hasn't crashed. And you've got a computer.

Imagine I'm putting my middle finger through a ring formed by the index finger and thumb on the other hand, then pulling it rapidly out again toward my chin.

you folks ever heard of text messaging alerts?

Don't you have a KKK meeting to attend?

You folks ever heard of remote regional areas without cellphone coverage? Particularly when there's a bushfire or flood and what little telecoms infrastructure there is is overwhelmed by people trying to contact their relos?

it's only deaf people, hinge.

how much can they possibly contribute to the collective anyway...?

Are they both H2O?

It is ridiculous to assert that skin color is reason for any country's woes. I'll certainly give you that. In fact it is so ridiculous it's not even repulsive (to me).

I don't know what is happening in Honduras and El Salvador of late but the last time I looked at murder rates around the world South Africa topped the list.

In any case with a rate of 31.8 Romeo was right that South Africa is among the most violent countries in the world. Their rate is more than 6 times that of the oh so violent United States.

Now if he is arguing that their violence is due to the skin color, I agree that his argument is ignorant, but I'm not sure that he is. Are you?

Referring to the chart you provided, if you "click on the little diamond" next to Region, you will find that Southern Africa tops the list followed by Central America, then Eastern Africa, and Middle Africa.

But murder rate is only one indication of the health of a nation or region.

Let's look at economics.

Obviously there are more than one way to judge the economy of a nation but here's a chart of GDPs by continent

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_continents_by_GDP_(nominal)

Africa comes in 5th out of 7 ahead of only Oceania (Didn't know there was such a continent) and Antartica (Didn't know it even had a measurable economy, and as it turns out it doesn't. The chart indicates its GDP is "N/A")

Interestingly enough, when one looks at GDP per capita, Oceania takes first place, while Africa is essentially last (Just above Antartica with it's population of 1,000 and no GDP).

There may be other ways to measure the economy of Africa, but in terms of GDP, the picture is dismal.

Here again, an argument that this is due to the fact that the majority of Africans are black is ridiculous.

I have little doubt that if we checked any number of other measures of regional health, Africa would be on the bottom.

I wouldn't argue that it's because blacks are inferior to other races because I don't believe it and because I would probably be strung up in my town square if I did, but there must be a reason or combination of reasons.

You dismiss the strong influence of tribalism, but it's there that I believe the answer lies. It can help to explain why some black Africans had no problem selling other black Africans to white Europeans. It certainly can explain Rwanda. How it has completely manifested itself in terms of retarding African development needs a lot more facts and thought.

Whether or not this is Romeo's argument is immaterial.

He was right though that South Africa is among the most violent nations on earth and that Africa has not emmerged from the colonial period as well as other regions.

Yes I'm absolutely sure his diatribe was based on the premise that the South Africa national setting is due to the fact it's run by blacks - I'd go back and get the quote but having found out he is a 'National Front' dude I'm going to wipe the puke from my mouth and ignore the asshole.

With that in mind the rest of your info about GDP and health et al is beside the point.



Ah, no I didn't, I said the colonial setters of national boundaries did.

Saying the Rwandan situation was caused by tribalism is a shallow reading. The violence ruptured on tribal lines but the triggers were not. The minority Tutsi ruled with the aid of colonial powers - without that intervention the Tutsis would never have gained (or held) control of the all the minor kingdoms that made up territories of Rwanda. Put the cork in the bottle and keep shaking eventually it'll pop off.

Read Diamond's 'Collapse' for a thought provoking take on growing populations with shrinking resources, and the tensions that seek any societal 'crack' to be released.

Anyway I did what you asked - can't be bothered playing point scoring with you any more today. Have a good xmas.

If I was only interested in scoring points with you, I would have long ago been too bored to continue.

If you don't wish to discuss a particular issue (for whatever reason) I'm not sure why you can't simply say so.

Can you be more of an irrelevant idiot?

I suppose it makes you feel good spouting this nonsense from a desperate life in which the government pays for your acces to the internet.

Life's been tough for izzy...so what?

You are the UK version of BiPo.

You have no no idea of the personal trevails endured by the people you castigate.

In short...Stick it up your ass.

Get a job and maybe you will appreciate the hard work of others, or stay on the Dole and continue to castigate those who pay for your benefits.

You're a pathetic leech, but maybe that's A-OK in the UK.

I could be wrong, but I think izzythepush is not on the dole. I believe he's gainfully employed and has also published a novel.

Still, he was a bit rough on you. Oh, well, . . .

Actually, that's true.

If pamela is the female equivalent of the Grand Dragon of the KKK then she can waltz in anytime.

Sour grapes from a nasty fascist. You know nothing about me. You're the leech, exploiting those beneath you.

Go back to Nazi arselicking.

An idiot would be someone who believes a London cabbie when they spin him a load of old bollocks about driving round the houses to buy 'special' petrol. A complete moron is someone who still refuses to believe he's been ripped off even when it's been pointed out to him by those familiar with the ways of London cabbies.

Btw, I'm not on the dole, and I've done jobs where a weakling like you wouldn't last five minutes.

I don't think life's been particularly tough, and I've never played the victim card.

Finn you rarely discuss an issue. You present your views, and then casually, caustically or canardly dismiss or ignore those that dissent - or you look for a view to oppose and jump in halfway through a thread and repeat.

I never wanted a discussion. You asked a series of questions, I answered as well as I could. I'm sorry I just got bored. We've danced this dance so many times. And I've seen the pattern you follow for amusement so many times. Yep. Bored.

You are not offering any explanations. If you could agree that the violence is mostly committed by males, one factor can be specified. Then the question is what makes some males more violent in one culture than in another culture. One possible explanation is that some cultures have a "male culture of honor," whereby one's honor can only be regained, after being "disprespected," by acting out some sort of violent vendetta. That is the explanation, sociologically, for the greater violence in the South, than in the North. Also, Northern Blacks brought a Southern culture up to the North.

In the U.S. this harkens back to Southern white folk meeting, on the court house steps at dawn, to duel with pistols after taking "x" number of paces, and then turning and firing.

By the way, the Northern culture, other than amongst teenagers, does not subscribe to a culture of honor. That's why I believe in the North, when an employee does something wrong, he/she is often not fired immediately, but fired months/years later, never to know the reason for the the firing, other than his/her services is no longer needed. I believe that in the South a bad employee is more likely to be discharged immediately, knowing what precipitated the firing. Two different cultures.

I don't know if I'm angry, confused or disgusted by some of the comments that have disgraced the post writers. How did we possibly attract such a load of horses asses? A great man, and an inspirational man died and was honored by his country and the world. Shame on the hair splitting spitballs who feel an obligation to say "well, he wasn't that special". Frigging idiots.

I don't know how many people could serve 27 years in prison, return to society and then work to try and make his country a better place for all people.