26
   

Where are the Conservative voices?

 
 
OmSigDAVID
 
  0  
Reply Sun 8 Dec, 2013 05:53 am
@maxdancona,
maxdancona wrote:
If there were extremist left wingers
writing bigoted hate-filled posts about a religious/ethnic group,
wouldn't you be sure to stand up to them?

I sure would. And I sure as hell wouldn't be defending them.
OK, Max, here 's your chance, qua the white race.
From your posts on your bigotry thread,
I know that u will be find these interchanges
involving C. I., Bill and me to be of interest:

http://able2know.org/topic/216816-354#post-5513225

(Note that I added emfasis, by bolding.)

Let 's see what u r going to DO about them, or not.

Show us how its done:





David
0 Replies
 
Brandon9000
 
  0  
Reply Sun 8 Dec, 2013 10:14 am
@izzythepush,
izzythepush wrote:

Brandon9000 wrote:
Then it's funny that so many people believed that Saddam Hussein likely hadn't destroyed his WMD programs.


Hardly, considering a compliant press was telling them that.

The point is that Bush believed that a monster might be developing the ultimate weapon and acted accordingly.
0 Replies
 
Brandon9000
 
  1  
Reply Sun 8 Dec, 2013 10:20 am
@izzythepush,
izzythepush wrote:

Brandon9000 wrote:
Come back when you get some facts.


Fact 1 Saddam Hussein had no WMDs.

Which we know only because we invaded.

izzythepush wrote:

Fact 2 Halliburton made billions from the illegal war with Iraq.

All you're saying is that Bush might have had some kind of motive to invade. This proves nothing. Lots of people, including you, sometimes have motives to do lots of things, but that doesn't mean that that's the reason they did them. Fear of WMD in the hands of a monster is also a motive.

izzythepush wrote:

Fact 3 Western Media lied/exaggerated the threat posed by Saddam Hussein.

Or they made a reasonable interpretation that happened not to be correct. Or perhaps Saddam Hussein encouraged the idea because he wanted the street cred. Either way, that's not attributable to Bush making the whole thing up.

izzythepush wrote:

Quote:
Criticisms of pro-invasion bias


A study found that in the lead up to the Iraq War, most sources were overwhelmingly in favor of the invasion.
A University of Maryland study on American public opinion found that:
Fifty-seven percent of mainstream media viewers believed that Iraq gave substantial support to Al-Qaeda, or was directly involved in the September 11 attacks (48% after invasion).
Sixty-nine percent believed that Saddam Hussein was personally involved in the September 11 attacks.
Twenty-two percent believed that weapons of mass destruction had been found in Iraq. (Twenty-one percent believed that chem/bio weapons had actually been used against U.S. soldiers in Iraq during 2003)
In the composite analysis of the PIPA study, 80% of Fox News watchers had one or more of these misperceptions, in contrast to 71% for CBS and 27% who tuned to NPR/PBS.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Media_coverage_of_the_Iraq_War

Bush repeatedly and incessantly said that the invasion was about WMD. Who gives a crap that Iraq had nothing to do with 9/11? They weren't being invaded because of 9/11.
izzythepush
 
  1  
Reply Sun 8 Dec, 2013 10:56 am
@Brandon9000,
We're starting to go round in circles. As you know the evidence for WMD was scant at best, and what was presented to the UN was spun out of all proportion. Therefore, looking at what evidence there was it's reasonable to assume there were no WMDs, which is why they lost the UN security vote.

They thought the Saddam Hussein regime would collapse after the first Gulf war. It didn't, so Dubya wanted to finish the job his father had wisely decided wasn't worth the loss of life.

Interesting that despite all the time passing and all those leaks they've still not produced a scrap of evidence that a reasonable person would consider evidence of WMDs.
0 Replies
 
coldjoint
 
  -2  
Reply Sun 8 Dec, 2013 01:23 pm
@izzythepush,
Quote:
It was very difficult for us to gather numbers from the other side of the channel during WW2. There was no such difficulty in Iraq, just a lack of will.


Here are some numbers for you. Since 1948, 11 million Muslims have died at Muslims hands.

Also who is killing all the Muslims in Syria and Iraq now? Muslims are.
There is no respect for human life in Islam. Chances are the number that America killed would be dead by now anyway.

Anyway you keep supporting a culture that solves everything with violence because they refuse to compromise. The West only uses violence because that is the only thing that gets results not because they can't do anything else.
0 Replies
 
Finn dAbuzz
 
  1  
Reply Sun 8 Dec, 2013 05:13 pm
Since max has been going on about the enormity of the problem of bigotry towards Muslims, I figured I would try and see how close to the mark he might be.

Since I'm assuming he believes it to be a huge problem in America, I went to the FBI site for statistics.

http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/hate-crime/2012/topic-pages/incidents-and-offenses/incidentsandoffenses_final

In 2012, 1,730 law enforcement agencies reported 5,796 hate crimes.

Of these, 149 were classified as "anti-Islamic," or 2.5% of all hate crimes in 2012.

The 149 were only 12.8% of all hate crimes based on religion. (Hate crimes against Jews, on the other hand represented 59.7% of all those classified as religion based)

The FBI also reports that there were 10,189,900 crimes committed in 2012.

Hate crimes in their entirety represent a negligible 0.06% of the total.

While we know it isn't the case, let's assume, for the sake of max's argument, that all hate crimes were violent crimes.

There were 1,214,462 violent crimes in 2012. Hate crimes (all violent) would represent 0.47% of the total. Less than half of one percent.

Even if, again, we assume what we know is not true, that all anti-Islamic hate crimes were violent, they would barely represent one tenth of one percent of all violent crimes committed in the US in 2012.

This is not to render insignificant the suffering of the 149 or so American Muslims who were the victims of hate crimes in 2012, but these numbers hardly support the notion that bigotry against Muslims is, in general terms, a problem in the US, let alone a huge problem.

While max reliably offers the caveat that he is against religious bigotry of all stripes, it is interesting that his angst and ire is reserved for Muslims rather than Jews who, according to these statistics, suffered almost 5 times as many hates crimes in 2012 than Muslims, despite the fact that their numbers are only a little more than twice those of American Muslims.

http://religions.pewforum.org/reports

Does this make max anti-Semitic? Of course not.

It does, however, suggest that he is grossly exaggerating a possible problem in this country while seemingly ignoring one which while perhaps is not, in and of itself, of great proportions, but is more so than the one that has inflamed him.

For whatever reason, he has adopted Muslims as his chosen victim to protect. Why he doesn't, at least, equally, choose Jews is more than likely because they are not currently the liberal flavor of the month (what with little bad Israel and all)

It is often the case that people greatly exaggerate a risk, threat or problem due to emotional bias (and in this I include political bias). We can see this in the case of shark attacks, fear of flying and bemoaning the scourge of rape and sexual assault in America's military.

It's a human trait and difficult to avoid but there are costs (both great and small) associated with it.

Once shark attacks in a coastal area attract public attention (and this is often just one and always two or more) the tourist trade suffers as do the people and businesses that rely upon it.

When there is an ideological component to the phenomenon, we end up not only with civil discord but, often, with unnecessary laws and expenditures of public resources.

So when max goes on about a problem that really (in relative terms) isn't even close to a problem (let alone a huge one) and then chides others for not jumping on his run-away train, it's, I believe, understandably irritating.
maxdancona
 
  2  
Reply Sun 8 Dec, 2013 05:41 pm
@Finn dAbuzz,
That is a pretty big strawman you are setting up here Finn.

Go back and read again, there is nothing in this thread about hate crimes. This is a thread about the proliferation of hateful and bigoted speech particularly here on Able2Know.

Your post about hate crimes has nothing to do with the point that I am making.

This thread is about bigoted speech from conservatives. As we both know, bigotry and hate are not crimes. This is why they needs to be confronted in the public, political sphere.



Finn dAbuzz
 
  1  
Reply Sun 8 Dec, 2013 07:08 pm
@maxdancona,
Well, if all you're worried about is hateful speech, then it is even less of a real problem and nothing to try and organize a crusade about.
maxdancona
 
  1  
Reply Sun 8 Dec, 2013 08:03 pm
@Finn dAbuzz,
I assume you know what the Anti-Defamation League is. They take anti-Muslim bigotry seriously.

Quote:
The threat of the infiltration of Sharia, or Islamic law, into the American court system is one of the more pernicious conspiracy theories to gain traction in our country in recent years. The notion that Islam is insidiously making inroads in the United States through the application of religious law is seeping into the mainstream, with even some presidential candidates voicing fears about the supposed threat of Sharia to our way of life and several states are considering or having already passed bills that would prohibit the application of Sharia law. ADL's anti-Muslim bigotry has extended to actively oppose anti-Sharia laws introduced around the country.


http://www.adl.org/civil-rights/discrimination/c/anti-muslim-bigotry.html#.UqUGlGRDuAQ

As a Jewish organization, they understand why this is important.
Finn dAbuzz
 
  2  
Reply Sun 8 Dec, 2013 08:15 pm
@maxdancona,
They, like you, are over blown. They, unlike you, have a history of justified paranoia.
maxdancona
 
  3  
Reply Sun 8 Dec, 2013 08:24 pm
@Finn dAbuzz,
They, unlike you, understand the need to challenge anti-semitism in public discourse.

You seem to deny that the depiction of Muslims or Jews as deviant threats to society who want to dominate Christian society is deeply offensive and dangerous. And you are continuing with this false equivalency... as if this isn't a problem because people say mean things about the Tea Party.

I don't think this issue is overblown. But if it is, why are you posting here?

OmSigDAVID
 
  0  
Reply Sun 8 Dec, 2013 10:43 pm
@maxdancona,
HELLO, MAX!
U probably failed to SEE my original post to u,
affording u the opportunity to show your sincerity, candor,
and bona fides in regard to what u have alleged that u 'd DO,
with hateful liberal bigots (regarding the white race, in this case)
so I 'm re-posting to give u another chance
before writing off your posts as naked hypocrisy:


OmSigDAVID wrote:

maxdancona wrote:
If there were extremist left wingers
writing bigoted hate-filled posts about a religious/ethnic group,
wouldn't you be sure to stand up to them?

I sure would. And I sure as hell wouldn't be defending them.
OK, Max, here 's your chance, qua the white race.
From your posts on your bigotry thread,
I know that u will be find these interchanges
involving C. I., Bill and me to be of interest:

http://able2know.org/topic/216816-354#post-5513225

(Note that I added emfasis, by bolding.)

Let 's see what u r going to DO about them, or not.

Show us how its done:





David
coldjoint
 
  -1  
Reply Sun 8 Dec, 2013 10:54 pm
@OmSigDAVID,
Max will wait until that post is buried and come back spouting the same crap again. I know the type.
OmSigDAVID
 
  0  
Reply Sun 8 Dec, 2013 11:27 pm
@coldjoint,
coldjoint wrote:

Max will wait until that post is buried and come back spouting the same crap again. I know the type.
but he can t, because I can re-post it any number of times,
in any number of threads, until I get hit by lightning or a bus

Max is still new here. I don t think he knows
that I have DONE that with other posters who tried to evade.

He can talk the talk; can he walk the walk ???





David
coldjoint
 
  -1  
Reply Sun 8 Dec, 2013 11:33 pm
@OmSigDAVID,
Quote:
Max is still new here.


And he already speaks for everyone. What a guy. Laughing
OmSigDAVID
 
  0  
Reply Sun 8 Dec, 2013 11:55 pm
@coldjoint,
DAVID wrote:
Max is still new here.
coldjoint wrote:
And he already speaks for everyone. What a guy. Laughing
That reminds me of the Culture War.
The aliens have undermined and dragged down our public celebration of CHRISTMAS.

I resent that every year; it was wonderful in the 1900s
up until around maybe the 1990s, possibly.

We 'd have been a lot better off
if we had ended immigration a few decades ago.





David
coldjoint
 
  -1  
Reply Mon 9 Dec, 2013 12:03 am
@OmSigDAVID,
Think Max is too upset by all this bigoted and hateful speech to respond? Or do you think it is just time for a diaper change? Laughing
OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Reply Mon 9 Dec, 2013 12:05 am
@coldjoint,
I hope I didn t hurt his feelings.
coldjoint
 
  -2  
Reply Mon 9 Dec, 2013 12:07 am
@OmSigDAVID,
Quote:
I hope I didn t hurt his feelings.


I think being a relative kind of a guy(Max, not me) I bet his feelings change everytime someones tells him how he should feel, or if it furthers his weak arguments.
0 Replies
 
maxdancona
 
  2  
Reply Mon 9 Dec, 2013 08:12 am
@OmSigDAVID,
I looked through that thread and I don't see it.

It looks like the incident you are referring to is where Cicerone Imposter is referring to you, as an individual, as white trash because you, as an individual are behaving badly.

There is a big difference to calling names to an individual because of specific behavior and defaming an entire religious or ethnic group.

I don't see any place that anyone is calling White people intrinsically violent and barbaric. I don't see anyplace that White people are being associated with rape or necrophilia.

This comparison is ridiculous (and I say that as a White person)

The false equivalency you are setting up is ridiculous. There is no one who is defaming white people the way you guys are defaming Mulsims.
 

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