Where are the Conservative voices?

Why would a culural relativist like yourself resort to the language of psycho-pathology to explain differences in what's offensive to whom? It's a mystery to me.

Because bigotry matters. It matters to who we are as a society. It matters to the people who are targeted by it.

What is considered acceptable behavior in our culture does a lot to shape who we are as a society and as a country. A hundred years ago it was socially acceptable to refer to someone as "Nigger". We worked hard to change that, and this change is more than just words, it is a change in how we view people and what is right and wrong.

If we accept the demonization of Muslims as part of our public discourse without it being strongly challenged. it hurts us as a country. It makes us a weaker culture and lessens us as a people who respect freedom and liberty and equality.

But there are also practical reasons. Consider growing up as a young Muslim and being faced with this type of hate speech. The posters in question are are claiming that Muslims are prone to rape and violence. You don't think this is harmful to individual Americans who must face this prejudice?

In my opinion, failing to strongly and publicly condemn this hateful bigotry is unfair to the people who are the targets of it. Those of us who want to live in a free, equal and fair society have a responsibility to the people who are being targeted.

Free Speech works only because it provides a mechanism for challenging harmful speech. Everyone has a right to be hateful or bigoted. But everyone also has a right to stand up against hate and bigotry. Because of this Free Speech comes with a responsibility.

People of goodwill who want to live in a free fair and equal society must stand up against bigotry... or the system will fail to work.

I could explain it on another thread if you would like.

Max, you're a pompous jackass with your mouth full of meaningless platitudes.

Sounds interesting. I'd like.

No ribbons.........please.

That ribbon wasn't for you this time. It was for Setanta. You can ignore it.

I really do not care who it is for. But that comment nailed you.

It sure did! That Setanta is a great guy, isn't he.

Harmful to who, and who decides? It works because it rallies people or upsets people.

You can't have it any other way, Bozo.

I cannot believe I read nearly all the posts in this thread. I debated writing a response, but have decided to do so for some reason.

Max, you ask where are the Conservative voices. Well, I'll tell you. I am right where I have always been. I have simply realized over the years that responding to some posters only gives them more of a platform to spout hatred. And while I firmly believe they have the right to say whatever they want, the rest of us have the right to ignore them as we see fit. Don't you just love that whole freedom of speech thing?

I once posted a response to Gunga (I think it was) about his whole KKKlinton schtick and how that will keep people from taking him seriously. But I quickly learned that it does no good, so why bother. During the Bush years, I cannot tell you how many of your liberal friends posted disrespectful or downright hateful things about Bush. I do not recall anyone stepping up to say how disrespectful was that behavior. Nor did I since I elected to simply ignore people like that. I could have just as easily asked where are the Liberal voices.

The fact that some of us simply ignore those who spout hatred or who cannot converse civilly does not lead to the conclusion that we agree with them. The only reasonable conclusion is that we have no desire to respond, just as there are some threads that I have no desire to write a comment in. Certainly you cannot deduce that I agree with all threads simply because I fail to write an opinion in it.

Bottom line, I respond to posts when I think I have something to add to a thread. I ignore posts when I believe I have nothing to add or that by writing what should be patently obvious to most of us would be a waste of my time. And pointing out that someone's constitutionally protected writing is bigoted, hateful, etc. falls under the latter in my opinion.

So now you know where my Conservative voice has been. Next time a conservative group is being hatefully attacked I'll be sure to look for your liberal voice to come to the rescue.

You could have said it is a double standard with a single excuse.

I agree. But then I suppose it all depends on how you view the role of a forum like A2K. I see it as a conversation. If I don't want to have a conversation with a racist or a bigot, I walk away. I don't continue the conversation just so I can express my moral condemnation of the other speaker.

You, evidently, view A2K differently. You may see it as a courtroom or a battlefield or town hall meeting. In those settings, I can see why you'd want to challenge racists rather than walk away. If, however, you also see it as a conversation, then all I can say is that I hope your interactions with people in real life are limited.


But we can show our disapproval by refusing to interact with people whose views we find reprehensible. Shunning, after all, is also a real-life tactic to shut down reprehensible viewpoints, and it works.


No doubt, but you assume that the only way to express disapproval of reprehensible viewpoints is to engage in protracted arguments with the people who express those viewpoints. I reject that assumption.


Your problem is that you think there's only one way for people to stand up against bigotry -- your way. I think you're wrong.

I could have said it a lot of ways. I could have condensed it to a couple of lines or I could have lengthened it by another few paragraphs. I've always said I can take a 30 second story and somehow manage to take 30 minutes to tell it.

Plus, maybe I just wanted you to waste a few extra seconds of your life reading it all in retaliation for wasting 30 minutes of my life reading these 10 pages. I'm wicked that way.

Oh, and I second what Joe wrote just above my post. He made the same point I think a bit better than I.

With THAT, I can agree.
I support free speech.
Everyone has the right to express his opinion
and yours carrries no more weight than that which u oppose.

Incidentally, u have evinced strong opinions
in this matter; that makes u a bigot, right Max ??? " bi Gott " R u a Viking?


maybe, sometimes -- not always


I dunno, but I suspect that I will take the trouble
to comply with your wishes about as ofen as u speak up
against gun control or against discriminatory taxation,
in favor of everyone paying the same percentage rate.
The passion of YOUR motivation does not exceed MY zeal for freedom.





David

I think the issue is resolved, now that Max sees he is a bigot, and the worst kind. When you try to shame someone into something by calling him or her names because they don't think like you. And dismiss any argument with buzz words like HRB(Hater,racist,bigot)while disregarding the facts and motives.

No more than a club in the hands of a spoiled child.

You are setting up a false equivalency.

There is a class of nasty things said about political figures or groups. Bush is a war criminal. Obama isn't American. Cheney has no heart. The NAACP is out to rob Americans of their taxes. This is a class of political speech. It is nasty, but it is targeting people who jumped into the arena, and it is targeting for what they stand for (be it right or wrong).

This the not the same the same as ethnic/religious hatred.

If you ever see a liberal (or anyone else) seriously promoting the idea that

- Christianity promotes rape and violence or
- Jews are out to destroy freedom and can not be trusted.
- Christians are tought to practice pedophilia

and you don't see me condemning it, then you will have a point.

Hate speech is something much more obscene and damaging than political barbs. The comments on this thread and elsewhere aren't just attacking political ideas or public figures... they are targeting ethnic groups including individuals who have done nothing to be targeted.

There is a big difference.

As already noted, yes, i've seen liberals around here engaged in Jew-bashing. I didn't see you there to protest. That does not surprise me.

Send me some links please. I haven't seen it.