Is it "The staff is upset." Or "The staff are upset.?

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This is extremely embarrassing. I used to know these things! Just like that.

I want to use a plural, because the singular just feels wrong, but my computer keeps changing it to singular.

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Type: Question • Score: 13 • Views: 2,903 • Replies: 46

[+5] - Roberta - 11/09/2013Deb, This comes up a lot in my work. American style would be, "The staff is upset." British style would be, "The staff are upset. " I'm supposed to follow American style. What I...
[+4] - Roberta - 11/10/2013[quote="dlowan"] Oh cool! Her mistress' voice has spoken. I write British English. I shall slap the computer's face! [/quote] Since when is the bunny such a lady (no offense)....
[+4] - Setanta - 11/10/2013The combing form "-en" is from Old English (Anglo-Saxon) for forming plurals, and is basically a survival: child, children; brother, brethren; sister, sisterns . . . oops!
[+4] - IRFRANK - 11/14/2013It wouldn't be comfortable if your rod had a staph infection.
[+3] - rhymer - 11/09/2013In my opinion The Staff are upset is correct grammar! They will be upset otherwise!!
[+3] - roger - 11/09/2013Groups are singular in America. British? They usually get it backwards.
[+3] - tsarstepan - 11/10/2013[quote="jespah"] [b]the children is upset[/b]. [/quote] That would make a great horror movie tagline for a horror movie where a group of children are possessed by a singular demon....
[+3] - jespah - 11/10/2013Of course, and it doesn't seem that anyone says staffs (for a noun; it is, of course, a verb). But it's interesting. We see staff as a plural or at least as always referencing > 1 person yet...
[+3] - dlowan - 11/10/2013Ah.....once again, English refuses to make grammarian sense!
[+3] - IRFRANK - 11/13/2013The staff is upset. The members of the staff are upset. At least IMHO.

@dlowan,

In my opinion The Staff are upset is correct grammar!

They will be upset otherwise!!

1 Reply

@rhymer,

Yes. "The staff are upset." This sentence is the correct one if one is referring to multiple members of workers in a company. "The staff is upset" would be correct if the speaker was referring to ... say Gandalf's magic stick weapon which somehow became sentient.

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@dlowan,

dlowan wrote:

I want to use a plural

I agree with you. The plural sounds right.

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The usage i believe is national. Although i would likely say the staff are, many Americans, most i think, would say the staff is. I don't believe either is necessarily incorrect.

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@Setanta,

I agree with you set. I keep substituting the word "staff" with other words like group or people. People would be "are", group can be either.

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@Setanta,

Thank you all! I shall happily over rule my US English computer.

Though, I could actually handle saying "the coven is upset" or "the board is upset" so I suspect it's really a group singular, if you know what I mean.....can't think of the correct word.

To think I used to have endlessly to parse and analyse sentences! and I could do it. Bored the living crap out of me mad I had forgotten most of my formal grammar by the time I had to learn a language. Sigh.

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@dlowan,

Groups are singular in America. British? They usually get it backwards.

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@dlowan,

I think i know what you mean. I used to care a great deal that i got these things right. Not in the sense that i alleged there were rules which could be violated, but rather as a matter of good taste, of good writing. These days i don't seem to care so much. This is a relatively recent change in my attitude. It happened at some time in my late fifties--it snuck up on me.

1 Reply

@dlowan,

Deb, This comes up a lot in my work. American style would be, "The staff is upset." British style would be, "The staff are upset. " I'm supposed to follow American style. What I often do to make the thing work as a plural is I add "members." The staff members are upset.

PS: Tell your computer to mind its own steenkin' business.

1 Reply

@Roberta,

Oh cool! Her mistress' voice has spoken.

I write British English. I shall slap the computer's face!

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@roger,

Quote:

Groups are singular in America. British? They usually get it backwards.

It kind of depends. The police are looking into this, the army is under strength, it kind of depends what you mean to convey.

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@dlowan,

It's a good q, Dlo. Maybe it depends upon our immediate concept of the staff as a unit

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@Setanta,

Quote:

These days i don't seem to care so much. This is a relatively recent change in my attitude. It happened at some time in my late fifties--it snuck up on me.

Your story here doesn't square with your Mr Grammar persona in the peeves threads.

And you still like to pretend in the language threads though you most often get it completely wrong.

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@dlowan,

dlowan wrote:

Oh cool! Her mistress' voice has spoken.

I write British English. I shall slap the computer's face!

Since when is the bunny such a lady (no offense). Kick the damned thing in the balls. Show it who's boss.

I disconnected all the correcting stuff on my computer. I don't want a machine telling me what to do.

1 Reply

@Setanta,

And recognize odd plurals, like children or oxen. We'd say the children are upset and it would look weird to say the children is upset.

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@Roberta,

Quote:

I disconnected all the correcting stuff on my computer. I don't want a machine telling me what to do.

You'd rather have a bunch of silly style manuals telling you what to do, Roberta? Look how badly they misled you for so many years just on 'everyone/their'.

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@jespah,

jespah wrote:

the children is upset.

That would make a great horror movie tagline for a horror movie where a group of children are possessed by a singular demon.

http://images.wikia.com/simpsons/images/a/ae/Wild_Barts_Can't_Be_Broken_35.JPG

1 Reply

@dlowan,

Quote:

This is extremely embarrassing. I used to know these things! Just like that.

I want to use a plural, because the singular just feels wrong,

And you still do know these things, Wabbit. To you, the singular feels wrong. There is a simple explanation for this - your dialect tends to use the plural for 'staff'.

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@tsarstepan,

Springfield Children of the Damned!

I'd watch that.

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Is it "The staff is upset." Or "The staff are upset.?

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