My Beliefs revisited

@JTT,

In other words you have no idea who that man is and where PC started and its intended purpose from its inception.

@Setanta,

Quote:

Perhaps you can explain how you reconcile this statement:

I believe we have freedom of religion, not freedom from religion.

. . . with these two statements?

I believe individual liberty must be respected in order for this experiment in self-government to continue.

I believe you have the inalienable right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness - whatever that may be.

So if i want to be free of religion, your respect for my individual liberty ends? If i pursue happiness, exercising liberty, you would interfere with that to impose religion on me?

Simple,
There is a difference between freedom OF religion and freedom FROM religion.
You have the right to practice your religion, or lack thereof, any way you choose, with no interference from the govt.
If you have no religious beliefs, that's fine also.
The govt cannot force a religion on you, period.

2 Replies

@Kolyo,

Quote:

I believe that as far as conservatives at a2k are concerned, hawkeye10 is the only one who really, truly believes in shades of grey.

I disagree.
I know that there are many shades of gray in life, however I also believe that some things are either black or white, with no gray involved.

1 Reply

@mysteryman,

Do you get to pick all of them or can I pick some too?

1 Reply

@mysteryman,

mysteryman wrote:

If you have no religious beliefs, that's fine also.
The govt cannot force a religion on you, period.

I agree with that, but I thought that's what most Americans mean by "freedom from religion". How does what you mean by "freedom from religion" differ from that?

1 Reply

@mysteryman,

You haven't resolved the inherent contradiction. What, then, did you mean by saying we do not have freedom from religion? If the government can't impose it on me, are you saying that individuals or private groups can do so? I'm trying to make sense of what you've said.

1 Reply

@Thomas,

no, it does not.

0 Replies

@Setanta,

Do I need to spell this out? I didn't think I would need to, but here goes.

NOBODY, no me, not the government, nor anyone else has the right to force their religion on you if you don't want it.
HOWEVER, you do not have the right to force your lack of religious beliefs on anyone either.

2 Replies

@RABEL222,

All of what?

0 Replies

@coldjoint,

We have now sunk to a depth at which restatement of the obvious is the first duty of intelligent men.

You are a flaming idiot, CP.

1 Reply

@mysteryman,

mysteryman wrote:

HOWEVER, you do not have the right to force your lack of religious beliefs on anyone either.

Can you name three specific instances where the government forced someone's lack of religious beliefs on someone else?

1 Reply

@mysteryman,

What you need to spell out is how someone "forcing" their lack of religious beliefs on someone else would be described as "freedom from religion." Don't use that snotty "do i have to spell this out for you" BS when what you say is nonsensical.

0 Replies

@JTT,

Quote:

You are a flaming idiot, CP.

You just do not like the quote. I bet Orwell would.

0 Replies

@Thomas,

Thomas wrote:

mysteryman wrote:
HOWEVER, you do not have the right to force your lack of religious beliefs on anyone either.

Can you name three specific instances where the government forced someone's lack of religious beliefs on someone else?

I gave this some thought, and these are all stretches because it's a hard one but.... (Remember I am just attempting to rise up to the challenge here...)
1. The effort to remove "under God" from the pledge of allegiance. (Which is really more the opposite with it's inclusion into the pledge...)
2. Abortion clinics receiving federal funds.
3. Something to do with Gay marriage and forcing companies to participate in them. I know I posted a story on this somewhere...

So, yeah. It would be a heckuva lot easier to demonstrate where religion is forced on the populace then visa versa...

3 Replies

@McGentrix,

Quote:

1. The effort to remove "under God" from the pledge of allegiance. (

The government has never tried to do this.

Quote:

Abortion clinics receiving federal funds.

Quote:

No. Ever since 1977, when the Hyde Amendment was first implemented, the federal government has refused to cover abortion in public insurance programs. Abortion funds exist to do what the federal government should do. Some abortion funds are part of larger organizations, like churches or clinics, but not one is part of the government.

Quote:

Something to do with Gay marriage and forcing companies to participate in them.

The government doesn't help companies participate in "them" it is responsible for trying to protect their civil rights

Quote:

The Senate passed legislation Thursday banning workplace discrimination against gay, lesbian, bisexual and transgender workers, nearly two decades after a push for such protection began in Congress.

Quote:

It would be a heckuva lot easier to demonstrate where religion is forced on the populace then visa versa.

So....yeah

0 Replies

@McGentrix,

McGentrix wrote:

Thomas wrote:

mysteryman wrote:
HOWEVER, you do not have the right to force your lack of religious beliefs on anyone either.

Can you name three specific instances where the government forced someone's lack of religious beliefs on someone else?

I gave this some thought, and these are all stretches because it's a hard one but.... (Remember I am just attempting to rise up to the challenge here...)
1. The effort to remove "under God" from the pledge of allegiance. (Which is really more the opposite with it's inclusion into the pledge...)
2. Abortion clinics receiving federal funds.
3. Something to do with Gay marriage and forcing companies to participate in them. I know I posted a story on this somewhere...

So, yeah. It would be a heckuva lot easier to demonstrate where religion is forced on the populace then visa versa...

You're conflating these issues with lack of religious belief. They're not necessarily tied to the lack of religious belief. There are people with religious beliefs that would have "under God" removed from the Pledge of Allegiance, that would support the federal funding of abortion clinics and that would support the civil rights of Gays.

0 Replies

The pledge of allegiance was written in 1892 by Francis Bellamy, a Baptist minister and Christian socialist. It did not originally include the "under god" phrase. This was Bellamy's text: I pledge allegiance to my Flag and the Republic for which it stands, one nation indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. The "under god" BS was added in the 1950s at the height of the "red scare" hysteria. Why would one assume that the employees of abortion clinics are areligious or antireligiouis? Why would one assume that the members of a homosexual marriage are areligious or antireligious? There's a whole heap of unwarranted assumptions included in that silly little screed.

2 Replies

@Setanta,

Quote:

Why would one assume that the members of a homosexual marriage are areligious or antireligious

That would be because every religion opposes homosexuals. It is clear the seeds of division are a huge tree now and that we will fiddle **** around on things like this until we are no more.
Priorities and responsibility are things of the past.

0 Replies

@Setanta,

Setanta wrote:

The pledge of allegiance was written in 1892 by Francis Bellamy, a Baptist minister and Christian socialist. It did not originally include the "under god" phrase. This was Bellamy's text: I pledge allegiance to my Flag and the Republic for which it stands, one nation indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. The "under god" BS was added in the 1950s at the height of the "red scare" hysteria. Why would one assume that the employees of abortion clinics are areligious or antireligiouis? Why would one assume that the members of a homosexual marriage are areligious or antireligious? There's a whole heap of unwarranted assumptions included in that silly little screed.

That's interesting considering I drive past Bellamy's grave every time I visit the grave yard. You'd think I'd know what the Pledge of Allegiance said when it was written and from the parenthetical comment I made I would have thought you would have noticed that I paid homage to the original Pledge.

Employees of abortion clinics are meaningless to the conversation. But, funding for places like Planned Parenthood, which do perform abortions, does happen. Despite the fact that the money isn't supposed to fund abortions.

People have been forced to participate in gay marriage ceremonies despite their personal religious beliefs.

So far as it being a silly little screed? It was more of a mental challenge as I do not really see it as actual thing. Too bad you are incapable of opening your mind the hair's width it would have taken to see that.

3 Replies

@McGentrix,

Quote:

People have been forced to participate in gay marriage ceremonies despite their personal religious beliefs.

Thanks for the laugh, McG. Really.

When people start getting desperate enough to make an argument like that one...especially with that link...it does tickle the funny bone.

1 Reply

My Beliefs revisited

Related Topics

Quick Links

My Account

able2know