5
   

Snowden says the Russians and the Chinese did not receive classified info.

 
 
Reply Sat 19 Oct, 2013 01:15 am
Here's my question, any nut jobs out there believe him? And if you do, p,ease explain why you think he was patriotic and not just a money hungry asshole like Pelton, or the FBI vainglorious shitbox who caused lives to be lost. Much like Cheney deciding to burn Valerie Plames contacts. Well, after all, those unfortunate souls were not registered Republicans and they were unlucky enough to be citizens of other countries, I wonder what happened to those folks, didn't matter if they were recruited or just casual innocent non-players. Better than excellent chance they are no longer among the living. I'm sure Cheney thought long and hard before he decided to let people get butchered because Plames husband wouldn't lie to bolster Cheneys delirium.
 
revelette
 
  3  
Reply Sat 19 Oct, 2013 07:19 am
@glitterbag,
From what I can tell, most people here think Snowden is irrelevant in terms of his innocence or guilt, if he revealed any classified info to other countries, what seems the most important in their minds is what he revealed to the world about the government has been doing to its citizens in terms of spying.

I can see their point, however, I think equally, the way that Snowden copied classified information and took it out of the country in own hands and went to other countries was wrong, period. Who knows what he revealed and what he got in exchange. I personally don't take his word for it.
Frank Apisa
 
  0  
Reply Sat 19 Oct, 2013 07:37 am
@revelette,
revelette wrote:

From what I can tell, most people here think Snowden is irrelevant in terms of his innocence or guilt, if he revealed any classified info to other countries, what seems the most important in their minds is what he revealed to the world about the government has been doing to its citizens in terms of spying.

I can see their point, however, I think equally, the way that Snowden copied classified information and took it out of the country in own hands and went to other countries was wrong, period. Who knows what he revealed and what he got in exchange. I personally don't take his word for it.


AMEN!

The notion that the Russians and Chinese did not receive classified info is an absurdity on its face.

EVERYBODY ON THE PLANET received classified info from Snowden...including the Russians and Chinese...unless Snowden is alleging those people cannot gain access to newspapers that published classified document that he furnished.

Snowden allegedly stole government classified documents and gave them to people not authorized to have them. There ares laws against that...and he apparently broke those laws. He is charged with that criminality.

He deserves a fair trial on the charges.
Walter Hinteler
 
  4  
Reply Sat 19 Oct, 2013 07:46 am
@Frank Apisa,
Frank Apisa wrote:
The notion that the Russians and Chinese did not receive classified info is an absurdity on its face.

EVERYBODY ON THE PLANET received classified info from Snowden...including the Russians and Chinese...unless Snowden is alleging those people cannot gain access to newspapers that published classified document that he furnished
Besides some uninformed, no-one else said so.
Snowden has said he left all the leaked documents behind when he flew from Hong Kong to Moscow and there is no chance of them falling into the hands of Russian or Chinese authorities.

I've looked it up, and actually besides some here, everyone else thinks that Snowden gave all the materials he had to journalists ... in Hong Kong, as it is said now.
Quote:
“There’s a zero percent chance the Russians or Chinese have received any documents,” he said.

More at yesterday's NYT-report: Snowden Says He Took No Secret Files to Russia
Frank Apisa
 
  0  
Reply Sat 19 Oct, 2013 08:02 am
@Walter Hinteler,
Walter Hinteler wrote:

Frank Apisa wrote:
The notion that the Russians and Chinese did not receive classified info is an absurdity on its face.

EVERYBODY ON THE PLANET received classified info from Snowden...including the Russians and Chinese...unless Snowden is alleging those people cannot gain access to newspapers that published classified document that he furnished
Besides some uninformed, no-one else said so.
Snowden has said he left all the leaked documents behind when he flew from Hong Kong to Moscow and there is no chance of them falling into the hands of Russian or Chinese authorities.

I've looked it up, and actually besides some here, everyone else thinks that Snowden gave all the materials he had to journalists ... in Hong Kong, as it is said now.
Quote:
“There’s a zero percent chance the Russians or Chinese have received any documents,” he said.

More at yesterday's NYT-report: Snowden Says He Took No Secret Files to Russia


Quite so, Walter. But I am responding to this thread. Look at its title. It is to that title (and the perception of many that it is the way things are) that I aimed my remarks.

Whether Snowden actually brought documents to the Chinese and Russians is largely irrelevant. He stole secret documents...and released that information to the press. In effect, he stole secret documents and gave them to the Chinese and Russians.
Frank Apisa
 
  0  
Reply Sat 19 Oct, 2013 08:05 am
@Frank Apisa,
For the purists among us...I acknowledge that I left off the qualifier "allegedly" in some of those sentences.

If I do in the future, understand that the "allegedly" applies in all comments I make on this matter. I do not KNOW independently that any of this is true.

What is one of the reasons why I hope Snowden is returned to the US for a fair trial...so we can all find out what, if anything he stole...and how he managed to do it.
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  2  
Reply Sat 19 Oct, 2013 08:17 am
@Frank Apisa,
Frank Apisa wrote:
Quite so, Walter. But I am responding to this thread. Look at its title. It is to that title (and the perception of many that it is the way things are) that I aimed my remarks.

Whether Snowden actually brought documents to the Chinese and Russians is largely irrelevant. He stole secret documents...and released that information to the press. In effect, he stole secret documents and gave them to the Chinese and Russians.
The title is definitely wrong because Snowden didn't say such (and the original interview is available, both printed as online).

You are wrong when you write "he released that information to the press".
He didn't - what you actually should know, since you respond to various threads about since quite some time.

I'm no expert in US-law nor a native English-American speaker.
But here, neither semantically nor legally he had given documents to the Chinese and Russians.
So you certainly can be correct from the American legal view and use of language.
Frank Apisa
 
  0  
Reply Sat 19 Oct, 2013 08:30 am
@Walter Hinteler,
Walter Hinteler wrote:

Frank Apisa wrote:
Quite so, Walter. But I am responding to this thread. Look at its title. It is to that title (and the perception of many that it is the way things are) that I aimed my remarks.

Whether Snowden actually brought documents to the Chinese and Russians is largely irrelevant. He stole secret documents...and released that information to the press. In effect, he stole secret documents and gave them to the Chinese and Russians.
The title is definitely wrong because Snowden didn't say such (and the original interview is available, both printed as online).

You are wrong when you write "he released that information to the press".
He didn't - what you actually should know, since you respond to various threads about since quite some time.

I'm no expert in US-law nor a native English-American speaker.
But here, neither semantically nor legally he had given documents to the Chinese and Russians.
So you certainly can be correct from the American legal view and use of language.


What do you mean that he did not release the documents or the information to the press?
Walter Hinteler
 
  2  
Reply Sat 19 Oct, 2013 08:37 am
@Frank Apisa,
Frank Apisa wrote:
What do you mean that he did not release the documents or the information to the press?
What I wrote: "He did not release the documents or the information to the press".
He gave them to Glenn Greenwald and Ewen MacAskill (of the Guardian), and the independent filmmaker Laura Poitras.
And they decided to publish some and more in future in the Guardian (and Observer), the New York Times and Spiegel.
revelette
 
  1  
Reply Sat 19 Oct, 2013 08:47 am
@Walter Hinteler,
Pretty specifies Walter. Rolling Eyes

We only have his word and Greenwald and MacAskill what he gave to whoever.
Walter Hinteler
 
  2  
Reply Sat 19 Oct, 2013 08:53 am
@revelette,
revelette wrote:
We only have his word and Greenwald and MacAskill what he gave what to whoever.
And Laura Poitras.
Glenn Greenwald and Laura Poitras are reportedly the only two with a complete set.
I think, this was reported already in early September.
revelette
 
  0  
Reply Sat 19 Oct, 2013 08:53 am
@Frank Apisa,
Quote:
Snowden allegedly stole government classified documents and gave them to people not authorized to have them. There ares laws against that...and he apparently broke those laws. He is charged with that criminality.


Exactly, I don't see how these facts can be disputed. I can understand some saying it doesn't matter because they think his crime was justified by the government's actions, but to deny he stole the documents and gave them to unauthorized persons...is just to deny reality.
0 Replies
 
Frank Apisa
 
  0  
Reply Sat 19 Oct, 2013 08:53 am
@Walter Hinteler,
Walter Hinteler wrote:

Frank Apisa wrote:
What do you mean that he did not release the documents or the information to the press?
What I wrote: "He did not release the documents or the information to the press".
He gave them to Glenn Greenwald and Ewen MacAskill (of the Guardian), and the independent filmmaker Laura Poitras.
And they decided to publish some and more in future in the Guardian (and Observer), the New York Times and Spiegel.


Walter...I am not sure 0f where you are going with this.

Greenwald is a journalist and a columnist.

Giving the documents or the information to Glenn Greenwald WAS giving it to the press.

If I am off-base on this...please explain.

Respectfully, if this is just a wording technicality you are invoking, I am willing to change what I said to: In effect, he released classified information and documents to the press...by giving them to Glenn Greenwalk, a journalist and columnist.

revelette
 
  1  
Reply Sat 19 Oct, 2013 08:55 am
@Walter Hinteler,
According to whom? Them? The last I heard the intelligence community still to this day don't know what all he managed to take out of the country.
Walter Hinteler
 
  2  
Reply Sat 19 Oct, 2013 08:59 am
@Frank Apisa,
Okay.

Actually, we know his name and the names of those, who have the complete sets of those documents.

I agree that such makes it easier to cry for a trial as if "an anonymous usually well informed source told this paper" happened.
Olivier5
 
  2  
Reply Sat 19 Oct, 2013 09:03 am
@Walter Hinteler,
Quote:
He gave them to Glenn Greenwald and Ewen MacAskill (of the Guardian), and the independent filmmaker Laura Poitras.
And they decided to publish some and more in future in the Guardian (and Observer), the New York Times and Spiegel.

Will they trial the NYT editors and journalists for treason?...
Walter Hinteler
 
  2  
Reply Sat 19 Oct, 2013 09:14 am
@revelette,
And this means that others may have more, different sets???

Could be, of course. Snowden certainly could have lied to Greenwald and Poitras (I've just re-read her interview from August 28, where she gave detailed informations.)
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  2  
Reply Sat 19 Oct, 2013 09:16 am
@Olivier5,
Olivier5 wrote:
Will they trial the NYT editors and journalists for treason?...
I don't know the relevant US-laws.

Actually, the Guardian transferred the data to the NYT, because the Brits tried to put their hands on them ... freedom of the press ...
RABEL222
 
  0  
Reply Sat 19 Oct, 2013 09:37 am
@Walter Hinteler,
Walter, Hong Kong is part of China as is the Hong Kong media part of China.
Olivier5
 
  2  
Reply Sat 19 Oct, 2013 09:48 am
@Walter Hinteler,
The law in the US is a fast evolving concept, an aspirational goal, open to debate and in practice generally sold to the highest bidder. Is that post-modern or what?

But the law of the American jungle says: nobody messes with the NYT. Those guys are smart and very well informed and they can make anyone's life miserable.
0 Replies
 
 

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