Snowden says the Russians and the Chinese did not receive classified info.

@RABEL222,

RABEL222 wrote:

Walter, Hong Kong is part of China as is the Hong Kong media part of China.

Be assured that I'm relatively informed about that ... and I have a slightly different opinion about Hong Kong's status.

So you think, Hong Kong media and/or the administration there got more, different files?

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@Walter Hinteler,

Walter Hinteler wrote:

Okay.

Actually, we know his name and the names of those, who have the complete sets of those documents.

I agree that such makes it easier to cry for a trial as if "an anonymous usually well informed source told this paper" happened.

Walter...some government secrets have been outed. The person who asked to be identified as the person who outed them...is Snowden.

The person to whom he outed the secrets...was a member of the press.

What is your point here?

1 Reply

@Frank Apisa,

That it is the very same procedure as it is done by others, though other information sources are usually just "anonymous", "well informed" or both.

Here it's just an easy target ... targets, if you include the two, who've got the files now. And "target" is meant quite literally, unfortunately ...

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If I was him, I would had placed at least one copy into the cloud in encrypted form where I could download it from anywhere in the world at need.

I would have likely used truecrypt in encrypt chain mode and then encrypted the resulting file with PGP for good luck.

Not carrying it with him even protected with truecrypt seems like a damn good idea however.

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@Walter Hinteler,

Source:

http://i1334.photobucket.com/albums/w641/Walter_Hinteler/a_zpsde1c2ed0.jpg

(via webarchive)

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@RABEL222,

RABEL222 wrote:

Walter, Hong Kong is part of China as is the Hong Kong media part of China.

You're half right, as usual. Hong Kong may be part of China, but it's not governed the same way. Not all Hong Kong Media is part of the Chinese state apparatus, which is what you're trying to suggest.

Quote:

Hong Kong is home to many of Asia's biggest media players and remains as one of the world's largest film industries. The loose regulation over the establishment of a newspaper makes Hong Kong home to many international media such as Asian Wall Street Journal and FEER, and publications with anti-Communist backgrounds such as The Epoch Times which is funded by Falun Gong. It also once had numerous newspapers funded by Kuomintang of Taiwan but all of them were terminated due to the poor financial performance. The Holy See, who does not have an official diplomatic tie with China, publishes Kung Kao Po, a weekly newspaper published by the Catholic Diocese of Hong Kong. Apple Daily and Oriental Daily News are the two best selling newspaper according to AC Nielsen, gaining more than 60% of readership. Both are known for its anti-Hong Kong government political positions, colorful presentations but sensational news reportage. Whereas Apple Daily is strongly regarded as pro-democracy, Oriental Daily is inclined to be pro-China government.

The freedom of press is effectively protected by the Bill of Rights, in contrast to the rest of China where control over media is pervasive. According to the Reporters Without Borders, Hong Kong enjoys "real press freedom" and ranks the second in Asia after Japan in the Press Freedom Index. Different views over touchy topics like Tiananmen Square protests of 1989, the dictatorship of the China Communist Party (CCP) and the democracy progress are still dynamically discussed among media. Many banned books in China, such as the memoir of Zhao Ziyang, the CCP party's leader stepped down in 1989, still find their homes in Hong Kong.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Media_of_Hong_Kong

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@Walter Hinteler,

Walter Hinteler wrote:

That it is the very same procedure as it is done by others, though other information sources are usually just "anonymous", "well informed" or both.

Here it's just an easy target ... targets, if you include the two, who've got the files now. And "target" is meant quite literally, unfortunately ...

But Walter...allegedly he stole classified documents...and released them to people not authorized to see them.

If so...that is a crime.

He asked to be identified as the thief...although he used the term "leaker."

He SHOULD be tried.

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@Frank Apisa,

Frank Apisa wrote:

He SHOULD be tried.

Well, Russia granted asylum to Snowdon. And since the United States had refused to sign a mutual extradition treaty with Russia (because they don't want to extradite those, who have broken Russian law, I suppose: since 2008, the United States has refused 16 times to extradite people to Russia citing the absence of a relevant treaty) ...

1 Reply

@Walter Hinteler,

Walter Hinteler wrote:

Frank Apisa wrote:
He SHOULD be tried.

Well, Russia granted asylum to Snowdon. And since the United States had refused to sign a mutual extradition treaty with Russia (because they don't want to extradite those, who have broken Russian law, I suppose) ...

You are absolutely correct there, Walter.

We have no extradition treaty with Russia...and we have refused to extradite individuals they have requested to be extradited.

Tit for tat...what's good for the goose is good for the gander.

So it appears we cannot get Snowden back from Russia.

But the Russians have indicated that they do not want him to stay there...and he has, inferentially, indicated he does not want to live there. So things may change in the future.

But whether we CAN try him or not...

...it is my opinion that he SHOULD be tried...

...which is what I wrote.

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@Frank Apisa,

Quote:

He SHOULD be tried

LOL as Ellsberg was tried for releasing the Pentagon papers?.

We all, as in almost everyone on the earth, owe one hell of a debt to Mr. Snowden for revealing a completely out of control US intelligence agencies.

Frank, I know you love the idea of the government climbing up your ass and using your tax dollars to do so but most of us do not feel similarly.

1 Reply

@Frank Apisa,

Frank Apisa wrote:

But the Russians have indicated that they do not want him to stay there...and he has, inferentially, indicated he does not want to live there. So things may change in the future.

I don't know about the first.
According to the US-Americans who visited him a couple of days ago, Snowden lives in Russia as if it was his home. (His father said, he doubts his son will return to the United States.)

But things may change, true.

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@BillRM,

BillRM wrote:

Quote:
He SHOULD be tried

LOL as Ellsberg was tried for releasing the Pentagon papers?.[/quoe]

Yup.

Quote:
We all, as in almost everyone on the earth, owe one hell of a debt to Mr. Snowden for revealing a completely out of control US intelligence agencies.

I don't. I think he committed serious crimes...and if the US government does not pursue an attempt to try him...the entire world is in serious trouble, because every attention seeker will be spilling secrets all over the place.

Quote:
Frank, I know you love the idea of the government climbing up your ass...

You do not know anything of the sort, Bill.

Quote:
...and using your tax dollars to do so but most of us do not feel similarly.

Perhaps. But perhaps not.

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@Walter Hinteler,

Quote:

According to the US-Americans who visited him a couple of days ago, Snowden lives in Russia as if it was his home. (His father said, he doubts his son will return to the United States.)

Snowden will never be let off the hook by the US for what he did so it's best he settled down where ever he can find a place that will allow him to remain. Any country he settles in will watch him like a hawk in case he tries the same thing on them.

2 Replies

@Walter Hinteler,

Walter Hinteler wrote:

Frank Apisa wrote:
But the Russians have indicated that they do not want him to stay there...and he has, inferentially, indicated he does not want to live there. So things may change in the future.

I don't know about the first.
According to the US-Americans who visited him a couple of days ago, Snowden lives in Russia as if it was his home. (His father said, he doubts his son will return to the United States.)

But things may change, true.

From what I have read, the Russians are not especially interested in granting Snowden permanent residence. If you have something that shows something else, please share it. It interests me. I just think it is not in Russia's best interests to grant Snowden permanent asylum.

Snowden said he wanted to live somewhere where the government where the government is not as intrusive as in America.

Interesting choice he made as an alternative.

1 Reply

@Bentinie,

Quote:

Any country he settles in will watch him like a hawk in case he tries the same thing on them.

Oh they would grant him a job in their intelligence sector so he would be in a position to reveal their secrets?

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@Walter Hinteler,

Quote:

and I have a slightly different opinion about Hong Kong's status.

Hong Kong is free to carry on as it did before China took over Transfer of sovereignty over Hong Kong from the British in 1997. But China pulls all political strings. Hong Kong dare not act without first consulting China first especially regarding Edward Snowden.

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@Walter Hinteler,

I think anything the Hong Kong media got the Chinese government also got. Not different but everything the Hong Kong media recieved.

1 Reply

@RABEL222,

Might well be.

wikipedia wrote:

The freedom of press is effectively protected by the Bill of Rights,[2] in contrast to the rest of China where control over media is pervasive. According to the Reporters Without Borders, Hong Kong enjoys "real press freedom" and ranks the second in Asia after Japan in the Press Freedom Index.

Since Poitras and Greenwald got (copies of) the documents already earlier, you really think that Snowden gave Hong Kong media ("China") different files?

As far as I could find out, only those (secret) documents published by the Guardian/Washington Post/Spiegel were re-published by other media as well. So it really might be that some HongKong newspaper is just hiding others - or can't publish them for other reasons.

On the other hand, both Greenwald and Poitras said, more would come.
Which certainly will, since Greenwald left the Guardian and starts with ( eBay founder) Pierre Omidyar, co-partnered by Poitras, a new independently funded site ... ....

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@Bentinie,

Here in the U S of A prejudging a court appearance is wrong. Just because the government charges someone with a crime dosent mean a jury will find them guilty. Two reasons I claim this is George Zimmerman and O J Simpson.

1 Reply

@revelette,

Quote:

We only have his word and Greenwald and MacAskill what he gave to whoever.

But yet you continue to want to believe your US governments, the ones who continually lie to you, the ones who slaughter people in your name, the ones who rape people in your name, the ones who torture people in your name, the ones who use WMDs against people in your name, the ones who slaughter little children in your name.

What kind of serious delusional behavior is that, Rev?

0 Replies

Snowden says the Russians and the Chinese did not receive classified info.

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