9
   

Americans : aren't you convinced now that Iran is peaceful and Israel is war monger ?

 
 
izzythepush
 
  1  
Wed 9 Oct, 2013 01:04 pm
@OmSigDAVID,
OmSigDAVID wrote:
I just wanna stand up in support
of warmongering here[/b].
Someone is trying to give it a bad name !

Sometimes we need war. I have mongered it; worked out OK.


Sounds like you support the actions of the 9/11 bombers.
0 Replies
 
izzythepush
 
  1  
Wed 9 Oct, 2013 01:17 pm
@Moment-in-Time,
Moment-in-Time wrote:
. Seems to me you don't have a leg to stand on with your implacability regarding the hard-core attitude used by Israel against the exposed helpless Palestinians.

Before you criticize another's dirty house please make sure yours is spotless!


Advocate refuses to acknowledge any source that does not support his own blinkered view of the situation. That includes Israeli sources like B'Tselem and Haaretz. Not only that he seeks to obfuscate by using his own terminology to describe events. It would be like describing the Battle of Hastings as the Battle of Westfield or Bexhill.

When someone refuses to debate anything honestly there's no real point in trying.
Foofie
 
  2  
Wed 9 Oct, 2013 01:35 pm
@RABEL222,
RABEL222 wrote:

No. That was the U S of A and her allies. Israel was responsible for the attack and death of about 90 U S of A sailors on the USS Liberty which was covered up by the U S of A government and Israel.


It wasn't "covered up." Many people just never got an explanation that answered all questions. But, note that ex-Nazis became "good Germans" by the early 1950's, and Israel is still being demonized for the decisions that resulted in the USS Liberty tragedy. Some people just don't like Jews, based on early societal brainwashing, in my opinion.
Foofie
 
  1  
Wed 9 Oct, 2013 01:39 pm
@Moment-in-Time,
Moment-in-Time wrote:

Quote:

So, how does the Christian militia get absolution for doing the killing?


Former PM of Israel, Ariel Sharon, at the time, an Israeli General, made it possible with the help of the IDF to make definitely sure the Christian militia did a good clean job killing all the Palestinian refugees. As for "absolution"?!?! Heck, how should I know? I an a non-believer in your god or anybody's gods!


Not "absolution" in the religious sense, but you seem to put the entire blame of the event on Israel, rather than spreading the blame to include the Christian militia that did the actual killing. You also do not address why the Christian militia was willing to kill innocents. You are doing a poor job of reporting, in my opinion.
Foofie
 
  1  
Wed 9 Oct, 2013 01:49 pm
@izzythepush,
izzythepush wrote:

Advocate refuses to acknowledge any source that does not support his own blinkered view of the situation. That includes Israeli sources like B'Tselem and Haaretz. Not only that he seeks to obfuscate by using his own terminology to describe events. It would be like describing the Battle of Hastings as the Battle of Westfield or Bexhill.



I would like to know why anyone on this forum has opinions about Israel or the Palestineans. If one is not Jewish or a Palestinean, I would like to know if the concerns reflects political ideology, or having suffered in childhood by feral dogs in the neighborhood. What makes one OBSESS over Israel and the Palestineans???? And, please don't tell me it is one's commiserating. There are a lot more situations in the world that are more important to non-players in that arena. This issue is fraught with personal prejudices, in my opinion.
izzythepush
 
  1  
Wed 9 Oct, 2013 02:08 pm
@Foofie,
Why would anyone have an opinion about Tibet if one is not Chinese or Tibetan?

It's called having fellow feeling for others. Something I wouldn't expect you to understand.

As taxpayers we all should have an opinion on how our taxes are being spent.

First they came for the Socialists, and I did not speak out--
Because I was not a Socialist.

Then they came for the Trade Unionists, and I did not speak out--
Because I was not a Trade Unionist.

Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out--
Because I was not a Jew.

Then they came for me--and there was no one left to speak for me.


Martin Niemöller
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Wed 9 Oct, 2013 02:19 pm
@Foofie,
Foofie wrote:
But, note that ex-Nazis became "good Germans" by the early 1950's, ...
Quote:
Denazification (German: Entnazifizierung) was an Allied initiative to rid German and Austrian society, culture, press, economy, judiciary, and politics of any remnants of the National Socialist (Nazi) ideology. The program of denazification was launched after the end of the Second World War and was solidified by the Potsdam Agreement.

That didn't imply those persons became "good Germans" or "good Austrians" = the result was/is noted in the 'certificate of conduct'.

In France, denazification was called épuration légale ("legal cleansing"). As far as I know, denazification was done in other countries as well.
Romeo Fabulini
 
  -2  
Wed 9 Oct, 2013 02:27 pm
Israel can certainly talk the talk, but whether they've got the balls to actually walk the walk remains to be seen..Wink

"We possess several hundred atomic warheads and rockets and can launch them at targets in all directions, perhaps even at Rome. Most European capitals are targets for our air force.
Let me quote General Moshe Dayan: "Israel must be like a mad dog, too dangerous to bother"
We have the capability to take the world down with us. And I can assure you that that will happen before Israel goes under"- Israeli military strategist Martin van Creveld, 2003


Romeo Fabulini
 
  1  
Wed 9 Oct, 2013 02:35 pm
Foofie wrote:
Quote:
What makes one OBSESS over Israel and the Palestineans????

Because when they start nuking each other it'll be the biggest game in town and better to watch than even the latest re-runs of The Waltons or Little House on the Prairie, and we're all eagerly looking forward to it!
Armageddon? BRING IT ON..Smile
0 Replies
 
BillRM
 
  1  
Wed 9 Oct, 2013 02:35 pm
@Walter Hinteler,
One of the most shameful things that the US did was to take in one of the German scientists after WW2 and used him in very important positions including the Apollo program and then when he was an old man deported him for his overseeing the building of V2 rockets with slave labor. A fact the the US government was fully aware of when they first put him to work after WW2.

Hell Wernher von Braun himself held high rank in the SS for that matter but it did not matter when we needed him and his men.
RABEL222
 
  0  
Wed 9 Oct, 2013 02:50 pm
@Foofie,
You mean like the murder of 90 allies that was covered up at the time? Unfortunately for Israel the orders of the high command were not followed and the ship was not sunk as ordered and they made the mistake of leaving witnesses alive to contradict the official Isralie and U S of A version of events.
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  2  
Wed 9 Oct, 2013 02:55 pm
@BillRM,
BillRM wrote:

Hell Wernher von Braun himself held high rank in the SS ...
Not really, he just was a Sturmbannführer (major) in the Allgemeine SS (("Universal SS") .
RABEL222
 
  2  
Wed 9 Oct, 2013 02:55 pm
@BillRM,
As did the Russians and many other countries. Even today this holds true. If someone has knowledge that someone else wants they will forgive anything.
Moment-in-Time
 
  1  
Wed 9 Oct, 2013 03:07 pm
@Foofie,
Quote:
. You are doing a poor job of reporting, in my opinion.


Foofie, I sincerely hope you don't take this the wrong way, but trust me when I tell you I don't care one iota regarding your personal opinion of my "job reporting" or what you feel about me! I sleep well at night and only see you when you respond to one of my posts or we happen to meet in the same thread.
izzythepush
 
  1  
Wed 9 Oct, 2013 03:19 pm
@Moment-in-Time,
Don't worry about Fluff, he often has delusions of adequacy.
Moment-in-Time
 
  1  
Wed 9 Oct, 2013 04:19 pm
@izzythepush,
Quote:

Don't worry about Fluff, he often has delusions of adequacy.


I know...Foofie is harmless; I'm suffering from a very bad cold along with sinus trouble and that makes me a little irritable. Foofie is not a bad sort, really and I don't find him combative. We just disagree on Israel....the same as with our dear friend, Advocate.
0 Replies
 
BillRM
 
  1  
Wed 9 Oct, 2013 05:08 pm
@RABEL222,
Quote:
As did the Russians and many other countries. Even today this holds true. If someone has knowledge that someone else wants they will forgive anything.


I understand that and I have zero problem with doing so I do have a problem of getting 30 or 40 years of service from someone and then not letting him live out his last years in peace but instead deporting him when he can no longer be of use to you.
0 Replies
 
BillRM
 
  1  
Wed 9 Oct, 2013 05:12 pm
@Walter Hinteler,
Quote:
Not really, he just was a Sturmbannführer (major) in the Allgemeine SS (("Universal SS") .


An how does your comment mean that he was not a officer in the SS??????

Yes I do know it was just an honor that Hitler gave him however he was in the SS at least on paper with uniform.
izzythepush
 
  0  
Thu 10 Oct, 2013 01:40 am
@BillRM,
Have you heard of a thing called universal indicator paper? It tells the relative acidity or alkalinity of something. There's a spectrum. Now for someone like yourself who can only think in absolutes, black or white, acid or alkali, you may find it hard to accept that something like that would exist, but real scientists don't think in such simplistic terms.

The SS took over many branches of government, and when they did those that worked there became part of the SS.

Quote:
As the Nazi party monopolized political power in Germany, key government functions such as law enforcement were absorbed by the SS, while many SS organizations became de facto government agencies. To maintain the political power and security of the Nazi party (and later the nation), the SS established and ran the SD (Security service) and took over the administration of Gestapo (Secret state police), Kripo (criminal investigative police), and the Orpo (regular uniformed police). Moreover, legal jurisdiction over the SS and its members was taken away from the civilian courts and given to courts run by the SS itself. These actions effectively put the SS above the law.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schutzstaffel

There are degrees, a fanatical Nazi member who joins the SS at the first opportunity is very different from a policeman who turns up for work to find out that he is now an SS officer.

I wouldn't expect you to understand this, just stick to your absolute world of black/white, alkali/acid, you should find it more comforting. The real world is so much more confusing.
BillRM
 
  2  
Thu 10 Oct, 2013 01:58 am
@izzythepush,
LOL where did I ever stated that Wernher von Braun was a strong Nazis instead of a man just willing to bend any moral consideration, in order to "play" with rockets?

As the old saying went in that regard "He aim for the stars, but sometimes he hit London."

None of that however change the fact that he was an officer in the SS and the US government overlook such little problems in taking him in after the war and in fact over time turning him into a public hero of the American space program.

To this day it is not common knowledge in the US that the man was an SS officer.

Footnote I do find it amusing to think of a Von Braun design rocket traveling at over a 1000 MPH and with a ton of high explosives landing on top of your head for some strange reason.

Hell that could even be enough to drive some common sense into your head perhaps Rolling Eyes
 

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