I didn't believe the government would be shut down.

the pentagon has plans for hundreds of events that will never happen, because history instructs that it is prudent to do so. your argument fails.

washington post today claims that both sides are digging in for a long war. shocking. I am thinking they get
serious on or about oct 17, though the actual day the gov runs out of credit will be later.

you are a really stupid fella, the entire point of my post was that it appears that Obama mis judged his adversarys, then you make a post which is supposed to refute mine yet you never even touch on the point?? Really? you used to be better at argument.

Whether Obama misjudged the Repubs or not, he would have capitulated his entire presidency, had he given them what they demanded.

Exactly!

In any case, the funding and the debt have absolutely nothing to do with the ideological pieces of the Republican hatred for Obama's victory on Obamacare.

If the Republicans want the program defunded...they should do it the way the legislature normally would...by passing a bill doing so.

This hostage nonsense is an absurdity...getting more absurd with each passing day.

The republican in my district who voted for the shutdown will have a VERY ACTIVE voter working for his defeat in the next election.

If the Pentagon has already planned for it, why are you whining about Obama not doing it? Shouldn't you be whining about him not using the Pentagon plan?

Hiya, Edgar. I, too, was highly disappointed that a government shut down has come about. Since it commenced, I've been able to get a clearer idea as to why. This shutdown is led by Ted Cruz, a tea party darling. Now the Tea Party worlds away from the establishment conservative Republicans, the latter being somewhat more humane.....the Ted Cruz's group actually delight in their bringing about the closing of the government. After the shutdown on Monday, they were beaming with joy. This is their MAINfunction, to bring down the government, which they loathed, down. The Tea Party may be described as the Neo-confederation fundamentalist Party, a party similar to the Confederate Party still fighting the Civil War. What is their driving force, more so than any other, is to weaken the African American presidency. Ted Cruz is spearheading this agenda.

Of course, there is going to be an unforeseen and unwanted effect, or repercussions as a result of the Tea Party action. The Democrats might take back the majority of the house in 2014.

Also, the Tea Party, it might not be known at this particular time, is in decline. The Tea Party, by the latest poll, is seen as a part of the problem that brings about government dysfunction. The reason this crap is making so much noise right now is because of the 2010 election which brought in an unprecedented number of right-wing Republicans who would throw their mother and children under the bus in order to gain power and remain there, and once here they are totally controlled by the Tea Party or threatened with a primary in 2014.

Efforts like no other is now being put into effect to make sure more Democrats participate in off-elections. We have observe during off-year elections, more older white Americans participate and more of the wrong kind of Republicans gain governorships, etc., and this is detrimental to the average American as compared to the massive turnout of all ethnics during a presidential year. In most of the southern states they are trying to repress voter registration, making it more difficult for minorities to vote; the GOP realize they are now facing the beginning of a demographic shift.....changes that occur in large groups of people over a period of time; the Latino population is coming into its own; Gays are voting overwhelming for Democrats; African Americans and Asians are voting the same way. It does no good for the Republicans to procrastinate with the immigration bill or let their racism and bigotry show.

MiT...we agree in so many things, I want to be sure you do not think what I am going to say is a disagreement...as much as a kind of warning to not under estimate an enemy (and I think of the Tea Party members as "enemy!)

They are more organized and financed than some of the more extreme left...so they exert a much greater force on the conservatives than the extremes of the left exert on progressives. This can be viewed as a good or welcome thing...but it can be a huge disadvantage.

Don't sell them short. Keep alert. They must be defeated, because they present a much greater danger to the experiment that is America...than ANY of its external enemies.

Apparently we agree on that, McG.

NEVER under-estimate the opposition.

NEVER!

It doesn't take too much for someone of your excellent mental calibre to convince me, Frank. I agree with your statement. I was reading an article today which stated the Tea Party was in decline which seemed to support someone voicing this same thing earlier in the week.

One thing for sure the Billionaires Charles and David (Koch brothers) will not give up until they leave this world and they have the money to back their anti-government agenda. Clarence Thomas and Anthony Scalia, two Jurists on the USSC, are paid handsomely by their connection to the Koch brothers. This is a judicial ethics problem for Scalia and Thomas, but seemingly US Supreme Justices can get away with murder. (Our Supreme Court has been compromised.) I think that shutting down the government will turn most Americans against the Tea Party....well.....one thing is for sure they will not force Obama to make any moves whatsoever regarding the Affordable Health Care which began yesterday, October 1st.

Between you, me and the lamppost, the Tea Party makes me queasy.

What extremes of the left?

I could give you a wink emoticon, but I'm not kidding.

get back to me after your drug cocktail kicks it, we will check to see if your synapses are working well enough to continue.

The left has it extreme element just as does the right. But it is less organized and more superficial.

The extreme left will throw progressives under the bus in order to demand "more"...when "more" is simply not in the cards.

The extreme left are the people right now building up the numbers of opposition to Obamacare...because they think it does not go far enough.

They refuse to recognize the political realities...and will help the enemies of a progressive agenda by deserting a reality-based process.

They are the people who call Obama a traitor...who join with the conservatives in calling for his impeachment.

At least...that is my opinion. I recognize and acknowledge that decent, intelligent people can disagree with me substantially on all that.

Well I think a govt shutdown is an awesome way to reduce the budget deficit

I fit your description except that I don't call Obama a traitor. I'm not opposed to obamacare (actually gop care) but I think it's a silly and costly intermediate step.

I consider myself middle re world understandings of the word 'left'.

The teaparty is in decline, nationally, but not locally, if you know what I mean. Ted Cruz is likely going to be a Senator for as long as he wants it, unless he does something illegal enough to get in trouble. There are many places in the country of the same stripe and I expect teabagging to be a long term pain in the arse.

Yep. Been here since Sunday. I like this town.

Yes it does, but what's more, it means the government hasn't shut down. There will be a number of spiteful stunts by federal bureaucrats like blocking off the WWII memorial and threatening 90 year old vets with arrest if they pass the barricades, but that's not shutting the thing down.