Military Revenge On Women and Children

Osama is an old sick man hiding in a cave. We'll devote 18 or 20 soldiers to finding him and let the rest of our troops take care of Saddam's mess. We know he paid money to the families of Palestinian suicide bombers and there's pretty good evidence that he supported Al Qaeda too. There were more reasons than WMD why the UN had sanctions against him.

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Bullcrap
"there's pretty good evidence that he supported Al Qaeda too."

Bullcrap!!! There is No freakin' evidence.

More Right Wing LIES!!!!

Children under 8 yrs. of age usually don't carry and shoot rifles, even pistols.

Thhe Military didn't need to fire missles or drop bombs on civilian houses in the cities of Iraq.

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why is every combat zone compared to Vietnam by some one aganst it?

my point is that anybody who dissagres with milatary action imidetly compairs it to 'nam

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why cant it be compared to d-day or gettysburg?

this was a weak atempt at a joke.

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Thhe Military didn't need to fire missles or drop bombs on civilian houses in the cities of Iraq.

you ar right, they can just stand still and get shot, so much better.

Tarantulas, do you know what a DD-214 is? Go earn one, and then I will consider your garbage. Yes it is elitist, I am ok with that.

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Quote:

why is every combat zone compared to Vietnam by some one aganst it?

my point is that anybody who dissagres with milatary action imidetly compairs it to 'nam

Quote:

why cant it be compared to d-day or gettysburg?

this was a weak atempt at a joke.

Quote:

Thhe Military didn't need to fire missles or drop bombs on civilian houses in the cities of Iraq.

you ar right, they can just stand still and get shot, so much better.

Tarantulas, do you know what a DD-214 is? Go earn one, and then I will consider your garbage. Yes it is elitist, I am ok with that.

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emclean wrote:

Quote:
why is every combat zone compared to Vietnam by some one aganst it?

my point is that anybody who dissagres with milatary action imidetly compairs it to 'nam.

I disagree with the comparisons to Vietnam. While there are some similarities beyond Tarantulas' humorous quip that "people were shooting at each other both times" there are also a lot of critical differences.

IMO the comparisons to Vietnam are attempts to invoke the failures in the Vietnam conflict and important to note is that the war in Iraq doesn't have that quality.

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Craven calls civilian deaths murder. So all our enemies, whomever they are, only have to use women and chldren as human shields--which the insurgents in Fallujah are doing--and they can do whatever they please.

If the insurgents burn alive those three civilian Japanese workers they have captured, will he call that murder?

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Foxfyre wrote:

Craven calls civilian deaths murder.

Foxfyre makes things up and posts them.

Some civilian deaths are murders, some aren't. In this case you are just getting names confused and posting another one of your falsehoods. You are referencing pistoff's posts and attributing them to me. pistoff is the one calling it murder and pistoff is the one making the appeals to pity arguments with the pictures.

pistoff, in post 635759 wrote:

I call it murder!!!

Foxfyre is fecklessly posting falsehoods again.

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So all our enemies, whomever they are, only have to use women and chldren as human shields--which the insurgents in Fallujah are doing--and they can do whatever they please.

If the insurgents burn alive those three civilian Japanese workers they have captured, will he call that murder?

Will Foxfyre get her facts straight and case to post apocryphal drek? Unlikely.

But to answer your question, of course I'd call it murder.

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Sorry Craven. I should have referenced Pistoff instead of you. That was an error and I apologize.

Can you state where I have 'made up' things and posted them however? Are you saying that the insurgents are NOT using women and children as human shields? Are you saying the insurgents have NOT captured three Japanese workers and are holding them hostage with threats to burn them alive?

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You "made up" the claim that I had said those things due to your confusion.

Did I say it? No.

Did you say I did? Yes.

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Are you saying that the insurgents are NOT using women and children as human shields?

No. Nowhere did I say or even imply this.

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Are you saying the insurgents have NOT captured three Japanese workers and are holding them hostage with threats to burn them alive?

No. Nowhere did I say or even imply this.

Any more imaginary arguments?

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Geez Craven what did I ever do to you? I apologized for picking the wrong name off the thread. Your post implied I had made up everything. But now that we have that issued settled, what do you propose to do in miliatry situations in which women are children are used as human shields? Pack up and go home? What kind of message do you think that sends to the next group who decide to use guns and bullets instead of diplomacy to get what they want?

And please answer the specific question. IF the insurgents are the bad guys and IF they are using women and children as human shields, what is the U.S. military supposed to do here?

Whether or not the military should be there in the first place is a separate debate. I want to know whether you think the presence of women and children means we cannot take any military action whatsoever.

I would also like to know why Pistoff and you and many others in this forum constantly call our side the murderers, but you never seem to reference those using the women and children as murderers. How do you explain that?

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Foxfyre wrote:

Geez Craven what did I ever do to you?

Well, for starters you make false claims about me and imply positions I do not hold. You continue to do so below:

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What do you propose to do in miliatry situations in which women are children are used as human shields? Pack up and go home?

No, I do not propose we "pack up and go home".

Nowhere did I say or even imply this.

If you do not believe it search through my posts. You will not find a single post advocating that we withdraw our troops from Iraq. I do not think this was a wise war to wage but I also think withdrawal is unwise.

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What kind of message do you think that sends to the next group who decide to use guns and bullets instead of diplomacy to get what they want?

How do you think I feel about your straw men? None of these positions you attribute to me or imply that I hold are mine and it's tedious to continually divest you of your imaginary arguments about positions you imagine that I hold.

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And please answer the specific question. IF the insurgents are the bad guys and IF they are using women and children as human shields, what is the U.S. military supposed to do here?

Foxfyre, each situation calls for different measures. Now what you are trying to get at is that the position you imagine that I have (run away, leave them alone or something) is unwise.

Nowhere did I say or even imply this. So do you mind if I skip the quizzes? You're trying to get me to defend/argue positions I do not hold and that you merely imagine that I hold.

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Whether or not the military should be there in the first place is a separate debate.

I agree.

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I want to know whether you think the presence of women and children means we cannot take any military action whatsoever.

Nowhere did I say or even imply this.

To divest you of yet another imaginary position, no I do not think the presence of women and children means we cannot take military action whatsoever.

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I would also like to know why Pistoff and you and many others in this forum constantly call our side the murderers

Nowhere did I say or even imply this.

Foxfyre, if you ask me why I seem irritated with you again this will be my answer. I'm rather tired of your lies about me.

I do not "constantly call our side the murderers". And this is yet another one of your feckless falsehoods.

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...but you never seem to reference those using the women and children as murderers. How do you explain that?

How do you explain that your post did not address a single one of my positions and accused or implied several outright lies about me?

How do you explain your feckless disregard for the positions of others and your penchant for creating straw men?

Foxfyre, you've taken the liberty to just make up a whole boatload of positions that I reject and attribute them to me. Would you happily accept such manner of deceit when the lies are about you?

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Draven, to the best of my knowledge I have never posted anything about you. To say that I post lies about you is therefore at best incorrect, at worst, well a lie.

Nor was I addressing my original post to you. I was addressing it to the thesis presented in this thread that it is murder (committed by our troops) when women and children are killed in Iraq. I do take strong exception to that and I gave my reasons why I take strong exception to it.

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Foxfyre wrote:

Draven, to the best of my knowledge I have never posted anything about you.

This is a lie. You have, within the last few minutes, posted things (false) about me. See below.

In just this thread you said:

Foxfyre wrote:

Craven calls civilian deaths murder.

This, of course was false. So what do you do? Retract it then repeat it.

Foxfyre wrote:

I would also like to know why Pistoff and you and many others in this forum constantly call our side the murderers

Again, this is another lie. I do not call our side "the murderers" and certainly don't "constantly call our side the murderers".

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To say that I post lies about you is therefore at best incorrect, at worst, well a lie.

You left out "perfectly accurate".

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Nor was I addressing my original post to you.

I am addressing the posts wherin you did make claims about me.

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I was addressing it to the thesis presented in this thread that it is murder (committed by our troops) when women and children are killed in Iraq. I do take strong exception to that and I gave my reasons why I take strong exception to it.

I take exception to it as well, which is why your continued lies about me are unacceptable to me.

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Okay Craven. Have it your way. I apologized for picking up the wrong name on the post quoted and I explained where I'm coming from. I accept that I am unacceptable to you. Rant on dear.

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Yes you did apologize, but afterward you simply repeated the lie and made it a bigger lie. And nowhere did I say you were unacceptable to me. I said your penchant for lying about me is.

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emclean wrote:

Quote:
why is every combat zone compared to Vietnam by some one aganst it?

my point is that anybody who dissagres with milatary action imidetly compairs it to 'nam

Quote:
why cant it be compared to d-day or gettysburg?

this was a weak atempt at a joke.

Quote:
Thhe Military didn't need to fire missles or drop bombs on civilian houses in the cities of Iraq.

you ar right, they can just stand still and get shot, so much better.

Tarantulas, do you know what a DD-214 is? Go earn one, and then I will consider your garbage. Yes it is elitist, I am ok with that.

emclean, this is b.s., i have no idea if tarantulas has a dd-214 or not, but it does not invalidate any of his/her posts. i'm not sure if tarantulas posted that last quote, i don't remember seeing it.

i doubt you are aware of how many vets are on a2k including myself usmc, and i'm pretty sure they would give you the same response.

*edited to correct some typos

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emclean wrote:

Tarantulas, do you know what a DD-214 is? Go earn one, and then I will consider your garbage. Yes it is elitist, I am ok with that.

Check my profile. I'll be waiting here for your apology.

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Irony
Yes, if the Japaneese are burned I would call that murder. I sure hope that they are not burned or harmed in any way. It would be murder and a huge mistake for them to be harmed in any manner. The cause for which the Occupation Resistors are waging would be severly undermined.

"What kind of message do you think that sends to the next group who decide to use guns and bullets instead of diplomacy to get what they want?"

Indeed!!! This is exactly what the US & the UK have done. When the majority of many countries protested this illegal invasion on Iraq they were ignored by their Govts. In my view the only reason that many Americans and Brits were in favor of the invasion was due to consitent lying by Bushco and Blair regarding WMDs, Immediate Threat, and Al Q. nexus.

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PR war
Refugees Stream Out of Fallujah

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=540&ncid=736&e=10&u=/a...

FALLUJAH, Iraq - The people of Fallujah carried their dead to the city's soccer stadium and buried them under the field on Friday, unable to get to cemeteries because of a U.S. siege of the city.

As the struggle for Fallujah entered a fifth day, hundreds of women, children and the elderly streamed out of the city. Marines ordered Iraqi men of "military age" to stay behind, sometimes turning back entire families if they refused to be separated.

"A lot of the women were crying," said Lance Cpl. Robert Harriot, 22, of Eldred, N.Y. "There was one car with two women and a man. I told them that he couldn't leave. They tried to plead with me. But I told them no, so they turned around."

* The killing of woman and children seems to have been a negative so the US Military is trying to get them out of the city. The plan may be to kill males in the city to set an example to Iraqis that the USA will not tolerate insurrection of the colonization.

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They have to cut out the cancer so the rest of the body can survive.

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Military Revenge On Women and Children

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