Military Revenge On Women and Children

why is every combat zone compared to Vietnam by some one aganst it?
why cant it be compared to d-day or gettysburg?

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The only resemblance between the current action and the Vietnam war is that people were shooting at each other both times, and the US military was one of the combatants.

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Validity, or lack thereof, of Vietnam comparisons not withstanding, the author of this thread demonstrates an unwillingness to separate collateral damage from murder. I'm somewhat surprised by Craven's blatant Ad Hominem attack on Safecracker. Has anyone here not seen a Kalashnikov in the hands of a child on news footage?

Craven: do you doubt that a child has taken up arms in this fight? Or that he becomes a legitimate target while doing so? What difference does it make who brought it up?

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OCCOM BILL wrote:

Craven: do you doubt that a child has taken up arms in this fight?

No

Quote:

Or that he becomes a legitimate target while doing so?

Nope

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What difference does it make who brought it up?

Safecracker said he was shot at by kids, but because Safecracker has told so many verifiable lies about himself on this forum I doubt the authenticity of that statement.

It's not a doubt about the issues you raised, it's a doubt that Safecracker is just plain lying about yet another "life experiance" of his.

I'm just really tired of the tall tales he tells on A2K and am saying so.

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so start a "why i hate safecracker" thread, why hijack this one?

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I don't hate Safecracker, and I am only answering your questions. I am no more hijacking this thread then are you.

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Quote:

It's not a doubt about the issues you raised, it's a doubt that Safecracker is just plain lying about yet another "life experiance" of his.

I'm just really tired of the tall tales he tells on A2K and am saying so.

Craven de Kere, I am new here, what you are writing looks and sounds like personal attacks against safecracker. His avatar is a patch I wore for 4 years, that makes me for him in any attack. So I would appreciate links (on a new thread) that back up what you are saying. Please post here what the thread is called so it is easy to find.

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Look, if saying that someone is not telling the truth is an attack, then discussions are able to be based on falsehood.

I don't intend to entertain your sense of comraderie and twisted definition of 'attack'.

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Craven de Kere wrote:

So now you changed your mind and do want to hijack the thread? Look, if saying that someone is not telling the truth is an attack, then discussions are able to be based on falsehood.

I don't intend to entertain your sense of comraderie and twisted definition of 'attack'.

I suspect someone has hijacked Craven's avatar... That doesn't sound like you dude. You can't prove he is lying about this and I know you don't believe in the absolute "he lies about everything", so what ground are you standing on? Calling someone a liar, without any proof, fits my definition of attack as well (yours too I would think). Does it not?
I mean no disrespect and I know its your sandbox but you are out of line here.

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bill, i don't see where cdk wrote "he lies about everything" regarding safecracker.

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He didn't. I reasoned that its the only possible defense to accusing him of lying on this issue without proof. I suspect he is just having a bad day, so I thought I'd jump in and absorb some of the punishment, so a newbie didn't have to. Just my way of saying "Welcome to A2K!" :wink:

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Bill I never said he lies about everything. It's not "punishment" either. It's kinda like having a friend who's always telling those really obvious fish stories that you've always gone along with. I don't think I could have played along with another which is why I take this with a grain of salt.

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all i am asking for is some of those

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Note: Safecracker has told a lot of verifiably tall tales here before so take this with a grain of salt

you say they are there, i am asking where. sorry i don't feel like searching through all 300+ of his posts.

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Oh, stop it Craven. There is nothing twisted in Emclean's definition of attack and nothing wrong with his sense of camaraderie. Unless I've learned something wrong, your unsubstantiated accusation is a perfect example of an Ad Hominem attack, no? I know you are typically the fairest person on this site, so much so that I aspire to emulate your demeanor, but today you seem to be letting your emotions run away with you.

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Whatever Bill, Safecracker does indeed tell tall tales. And no, it's not an "attack" to express disbelief in them.

emclean, like I said earlier, I don't plan on indulging you. And I know that you will make of it what you will and am perfectly content to live with that.

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emclean wrote:

why is every combat zone compared to Vietnam by some one aganst it?
why cant it be compared to d-day or gettysburg?

Well, Emclean, I think the ghost of Vietnam is haunting Iraq II because of a number of factors.

Vietnam was undertaken, in large part for ideological, emotional and symbolic reasons, against an enemy which had attacked none of the external combatants, on supposed grounds which were, to say the least, open to doubt.

A large part of the world was against the war - and only dummies like Oz joined in. This time the UK came too.

The war split public opinion in the countries which joined in it, and created great societal divides.

It was undertaken in the midst of a civilian population which was also very split - leading to the engagement of non-uniformed combatants, including children, which created huge problems for opposing forces and to great brutalisation of foreign soldier and civilian populations.

I could go on?

D Day was the commencement of battle, approved and joined in by many countries, to retake a huge area of Europe which had been invaded and brutally oppressed by a foreign army and dictator.

The civilian population was largely welcoming of the troops - though many died in the fighting.

Both Iraq and D Day, to be fair, share the presence of a brutal dictator.

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Oh - and the exit strategies for both Vietnam and Iraq are sort of not there.....

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Well said, dlowan.

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dlowan wrote:

A large part of the world was against the war - and only dummies like Oz joined in. This time the UK came too.

The war split public opinion in the countries which joined in it, and created great societal divides.

You might be surprised to learn that the Operation Iraqi Freedom Coalition has more members than just Australia, the UK, and the US. I would post the list here but I can't seem to find it easily. I know that Poland was in on the initial battles. Japan is in there now. I think Sweden is there, obviously Spain, also one of the countries in South America. I wouldn't call those countries dummies, though. It seems to me they are the smart ones for fighting back against terrorism.

dlowan wrote:

It was undertaken in the midst of a civilian population which was also very split - leading to the engagement of non-uniformed combatants, including children, which created huge problems for opposing forces and to great brutalisation of foreign soldier and civilian populations.

Civilians are always the innocent victims of war. This war is much different from Vietnam in that the civilian casualty rate was quite low. Also, if you read any of the writings from the soldiers over there now, you can see they all talk about how grateful the Iraqis are to the soldiers, to be free of Saddam. It's only a small minority of the population that's causing trouble. They will be placed under control in the near future.

So the two wars are much different. The Coalition is going to walk away from this one knowing that the job has been well done and the Iraqis are free and happy. There will be no Communists pouring out of the north to take them over.

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Tarantulas you keep refering to the Iraqi invasion as a fight against terrorism...i thought it was because Sadam was supposed to have weapons of mass distruction (which are not there) :-) the terrorist were osama and his crew...have we found them yet? Have we won anything against terror? Just wondering.

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Military Revenge On Women and Children

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