20
   

Shooting at Washington Shipyard

 
 
MontereyJack
 
  4  
Reply Sat 21 Sep, 2013 11:46 am
BillRM says
Quote:
An if firearms could not be purchase from the US the weapons would come from around the world to meet the needs of the Mexico drug gangs

Let them get them from the rest of the world, then. No reason we should be enabling them. Why exactly is it that you're so keen on supplying Mexican druglords their guns, Bill?
BillRM
 
  -2  
Reply Sat 21 Sep, 2013 11:58 am
@MontereyJack,
Quote:
Let them get them from the rest of the world, then. No reason we should be enabling them. Why exactly is it that you're so keen on supplying Mexican druglords their guns, Bill?


LOL and why are you so very eager to add to their profit by importing guns into the US along with the drugs?

If people wish drugs they will pay the cost of someone to get the drugs laws or no laws and as in during prohibition where drinking in fact increase not decrease.

An anyone who wish firearms will get firearms laws or no laws.
0 Replies
 
oralloy
 
  -4  
Reply Sat 21 Sep, 2013 12:06 pm
@MontereyJack,
MontereyJack wrote:
Let them get them from the rest of the world, then. No reason we should be enabling them.

Actually, the rest of the world is already their main source.

The drug cartels are primarily supplied with their guns by leftist governments like the one in charge of Venezuela.

(The US is the cartels' only source for FN Five seveN pistols however.)
BillRM
 
  -2  
Reply Sat 21 Sep, 2013 12:43 pm
@oralloy,
An of course even heavy weapons had fallen into their hands by bribing Mexico military people for them.

So must for laws that made it illegal to even have bullets.

footnote there had been reports of Mexico military units even crossing the border to provide protection when the drug gangs are moving drugs into the US.
0 Replies
 
mysteryman
 
  4  
Reply Sat 21 Sep, 2013 03:43 pm
@izzythepush,
Quote:
It means more and more of these mass shootings will become more and more frequent. And people like you will blame video games, mental health, anything as long as you can keep hold of your guns.


People like me?
What exactly does that mean?

I have never opposed sensible gun restrictions, I support background checks, and I support enforcing the gun laws already on the books.
I am not a radical gun owner, even though I own 3 of them.

By sensible gun restrictions, I would support banning certain types of guns in certain areas.
Many people mention the AR-15 as not being needed by anyone,so lets start there.
The AR-15 is not needed in crowdedurban areas,I 100% agree with that. So ban them in the cities.
However, the area I live in is a very rural area,with 14,850 people living in an area of 342.85 square miles.
There are 3 towns in this county that have a combined population of about 7,000 people.
My point is that this county is very rural, and a weapon like the AR-15 is used as a varmint gun, to shoot coyotes, and other garden pests.
It is a .223 caliber, only slightly larger than a 22 caliber rifle.
As an aside, I wonder if you and others even knew what an AR-15 was before Sandy Hook.

You mentioned mental health and video games used as an excuse by "people like me", so lets examine that.
Doyou think its the act of a sane individual to shoot that many people?
The shooter at the Navy Yard was known to have some mental issues, the navy even knew while he was in the service
,yet instead of getting him help they discharged him.
The man that shot up the Newtown elementary school was known to have some mental problems also.
So yes, people that are mentally ill have no business having a weapon, but more importantly, they need to be helped.

As for video games, I have mixed feelings about them.
I know there is no evidence that says video games are the problem, but I am not 100% convinced of that.
As long as people remember that they are just games, than I dont see a problem. I know most people realize they are just games and that you cant just hit a reset button in reallife when someone dies.
However, I do believe that some of these games, with the way violence and death are portrayed, can and do desensitize people to death and killing, and I think that contributes to the problem.

As I said earlier, I own 3 weapons, 1 rifle, 1 shotgun, and 1 handgun.
The rifle I use for deer hunting,the shotgun I use for turkey hunting, and the pistol I use for home defense and personal protection.
I do have a concealed carry permit, but I rarely carry my pistol.
I have carried it when I leave the house 5 times total since January, once to Indianapolis, twice to Nashville, and twice to Louisville. I dont feel the need to carry it everywhere, because I simply dont need to.

However,because this is such a rural county, I do feel the need to have something for home defense.
Unlike a big city, if I have to call the police it could take 30 minutes for them to get here,because there are not very many of them (5 deputy sheriffs, 3 state troopers that cover 3 counties, and 10 city officers. The city cops stay in the cities).

Sowill you please explain exactly what you meant by "people like me", or was that just your attempt to make a cheap shot?


mysteryman
 
  3  
Reply Sat 21 Sep, 2013 03:48 pm
@mysteryman,
My point in linking to the article was a simple one, what happened 7 years ago to trigger the rash of shootings?
Before you or others say it, I DO NOT think it had anything to do with the election of OBama, and anyone that does think so is imho a complete idiot.
Some people will say that it is because of the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan.
That might be,but as far as I know the only person that was a veteran at all was the Navy Yard shooter, the resy of the shooters never served.

So,what was the catalyst?
izzythepush
 
  1  
Reply Sat 21 Sep, 2013 03:53 pm
@mysteryman,
What you deem sensible gun restrictions are really very tiny. They're not likely to make that much difference, the only thing that would alter things is a radical overhaul, which I'm sure you would oppose. Granted your position isn't as extreme as some, but when push comes to shove you want to make sure any restrictions don't affect you personally.
BillRM
 
  -1  
Reply Sat 21 Sep, 2013 04:07 pm
@mysteryman,
Quote:
So yes, people that are mentally ill have no business having a weapon, but more importantly, they need to be helped.


Could not agree with you more that the navy yard shooter should had been given help with special note of the Navy.

Quote:
As for video games, I have mixed feelings about them


I remember when comedy books was going to turn the next generation into killers and such. It all one and the same nonsense.
0 Replies
 
BillRM
 
  -2  
Reply Sat 21 Sep, 2013 04:16 pm
@izzythepush,
Quote:
but when push comes to shove you want to make sure any restrictions don't affect you personally.


An why should it affect him personally or people like him for that matter?

Quote:
isn't as extreme as some


An your position is not extreme? Even supporting your nation laws that will not even allow your women to have the mild protection of a small can of pepper spray from rapists and muggers?

Or laws that result in even keeping your national pistol team from practicing without needing to leave the UK?

The word extreme seems to fit you far better then most posters on this website.





izzythepush
 
  2  
Reply Sat 21 Sep, 2013 04:23 pm
@BillRM,
I know, stopping children being killed counts as extreme in your book.
mysteryman
 
  1  
Reply Sat 21 Sep, 2013 05:04 pm
@izzythepush,
Quote:
What you deem sensible gun restrictions are really very tiny.


You have no idea what I deem sensible, because I didnt go into it. So you are making an assumption based on facts not in evidence.
At least wait till I go into detail before you judge.
Quote:

but when push comes to shove you want to make sure any restrictions don't affect you personally.

Wrong again!!
I just want to make sure that any restrictions are fair to everyone,and dont penalize legal gun owners for owning a legal weapon.
0 Replies
 
BillRM
 
  -1  
Reply Sat 21 Sep, 2013 05:12 pm
@izzythepush,
Quote:
I know, stopping children being killed counts as extreme in your book.


Sorry no children would likely be save by taking the firearms from Mysteryman or for that matter 99.9999 percents of the legal gun owners in the US.

You would save more children if that was your real goal by banning all outdoor swimming pools or for that matter many other objects then firearms.

Of course it for the children is a great excuse for people who love the government any government to have more and more control of the citizens.

It for the children is the excuse your leadership is now using to start your nation going down the same path of the Chinese in censoring the internet and even using Chinese hardware to do so!!!!!!
0 Replies
 
JTT
 
  2  
Reply Sat 21 Sep, 2013 07:47 pm
@edgarblythe,
Quote:
I would appreciate if people would ignore people like gunga snack on this thread.


That lasted 'til page 4, Ed.
0 Replies
 
Baldimo
 
  0  
Reply Sun 22 Sep, 2013 12:34 am
@MontereyJack,
The only people I know of supplying the Mexican drug lords with their guns, are Obama and Holder. Did you forget about Fast and Furious?
0 Replies
 
hawkeye10
 
  1  
Reply Sun 22 Sep, 2013 02:49 am
pretty much no one cares but this does make us more sure of two things we already know:

1) the government is incompetent

2) nut jobs should not be able to get guns

the half life of this calamity has already hit, by the end of next week no one will be speaking of it.
0 Replies
 
Olivier5
 
  1  
Reply Sun 22 Sep, 2013 07:38 am
This discussion reminds me of Stand on Zanzibar by John Bruner, a sci-fi book published in the 60's. It predicted, among many other things, that random shootings would become increasingly frequent, and that the first generation exposed to them (ours) will simply get desensitized to the phenomenon.

No significant curb on the US gun culture is likely to pass before a generation or two have been traumatized by ever more frequent mass shootings. Way to go, shooters!
0 Replies
 
Ceili
 
  4  
Reply Sun 22 Sep, 2013 08:43 am
@mysteryman,
Quote:
what happened 7 years ago to trigger the rash of shootings?

I think that's a great question. As a casual observer... here are my observations.
There's a lot of anger in the US. I feel it whenever I meet an American or go there.
Anger and fear because of unemployment, wars, health care, crumbling education systems and a government stuck in perpetual deadlock. A financial fiasco happened and only the middle class and poor have paid for it. The rich kept getting richer and the rest of you lost more money, rights, services and privacy. And your judicial system seems to punish people for being poor and/or black. If your going to do the time, might as well do the crime.
The class system that never seems to disappear.
The only thing Americans can truly hold onto, up to and including their cold, dead hands apparently, is guns. Backs up against the wall, armed at the ready... Statistics be damned.
There's a huge disconnect. An us and against them mentality, where politicians routinely call other Americans - UnAmerican? And people buy into it. Where brown Americans walk around under a shadow of suspicion and blacks, well...
Where pre-existing conditions and mental disorders are a death knell and ignored, unless you have cash.
Americans used to care about each other, or maybe it's a 1950ish ideal, but WTF happened? You bought into to the Ayn Randisms where charity is for pussies. Eat or be eaten.
hawkeye10
 
  1  
Reply Sun 22 Sep, 2013 12:46 pm
@Ceili,
we do care about others, dont you notice how we cry for victims? how outreach to victims is one of the main missions of the Church of Victimology?

but the glue that binds us, weak for awhile, no longer works good enough. Victimologys main project of spliting us into groups of abusers and victims, while making for lots of good cries, helps not at all.

as for why the glue failed, its complicated. ignorance, the failure of honest dialog, not understanding power thus constantly being run over by manipulators, old fashioned laziness all come into play.


angry that we are lost, angry the we dont know to do about it, angry the we have no leaders, angry that we let ourselves get into this mess, angry because we kniw at the bottom of our hearts that this is all our fault no matter how the Church if Victimology keeps giving.us sermons on how this all proves what good victims we are.
roger
 
  1  
Reply Sun 22 Sep, 2013 12:50 pm
@Ceili,
If you wanted to develope this into a book, I would probably buy it.
0 Replies
 
JTT
 
  1  
Reply Sun 22 Sep, 2013 12:52 pm
@hawkeye10,
Quote:
we do care about others, dont you notice how we cry for victims?


Only if the victims are USians and the crying serves propaganda purposes. When the victims are foreigners, US killed, USians do nothing but whine about how tough life is for them after having bombed numerous countries back into the stone age.

Y'all have to acquire a sense of morality before you could even begin to approach caring. Just look at the American bloodbath in the 1860s.
 

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