Top Ten Things Professors Do To Skew You

Speaking as someone who has been exposed to about twenty professors over about 11 years of my life, I'd like to share the following observations:

1) Professors have their politics just like everybody else. As experts with high credentials, they might be biased towards having decisions made by experts with high credentials rather than by average Joes. That, in turn, might make them more inclined towards liberal positions than towards conservative ones. More prominently though, the professors I had the pleasure to meet have a much stronger bias towards using their own head for thinking, rather than repeating what media pundids are saying. As a result, their politics tend to be much more all over the place in terms of conclusions, more consistent in terms of basic principles, and generally more contrarian than the average person's. Any liberal bias they might have pales in comparison to this.

2) Only two of the professors I met ever discussed politics in the class room. When the first Iraq war broke out, my math professor was against it, and my theoretical physics professor was for it. In both cases, there was an hour of discussion among the professor and the students. In no case did a student later end up passing the exam because he had agreed with the professor's politics, and in no case did a student fail because he had disagreed. The student community at any university is small and gossip-happy, so there would have at least been rumors if anything like this had happened. There weren't any.

3) Marketable skills make no difference to a scientist's decision to pursue a carreer in academia rather than in some company. People tend to stay in academia if the problems they are fascinated with aren't marketable. But the skills they need to solve these problems are in very high demand, and very short supply, in corporations. Without knowing the income of Sozobe's husband, and without knowing him to judge what skills he has, my bet would be that his lifetime income could be twice as high if he chose to become a Chief Technology Officer somewhere. I have chosen an industry carreer myself, and so far I'm reasonably successful in it. But I have nothing but respect for people who forego that kind of money so they can pursue the intellectual challenges that matter most to them.

Ideological pundids dislike professors because facts and logic kill ideologies, not because something is wrong with the professors. Again, I greatly respect professors for this. That's why the two avatars I had on Able2Know so far are both professors.

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IronLionZion wrote:

Its not our fault that most highly educated people tend to be Liberal.

I haven't seen that to be true at all.

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L.R.R.Hood wrote:

IronLionZion wrote:
Its not our fault that most highly educated people tend to be Liberal.

I haven't seen that to be true at all.

You need to look more.

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No, I don't think so. You act as though there is no one in the world who could possibly know something that you don't. That is a faulty perspective, my friend.

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L.R.R.Hood wrote:

No, I don't think so. You act as though there is no one in the world who could possibly know something that you don't. That is a faulty perspective, my friend.

No. I act like more highly educated people are liberal.

Because, you know, its, like, kinda true and all, homie.

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billy falcon wrote:

The discussion reminds me of a cartoon in the New Yorker some twenty years ago.

A young man is standing in the living room with a couple of suitcases with college pennants on them, his mother next to him, dabbing her eyes with the corner of her apron, his father in an easy chair poking his face around his newspaper says,

"Now, don't you come back with any ideas!"

LOL! Exactly. Ideas are evil!

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IronLionZion wrote:

L.R.R.Hood wrote:
No, I don't think so. You act as though there is no one in the world who could possibly know something that you don't. That is a faulty perspective, my friend.

No. I act like more highly educated people are liberal.

Because, you know, its, like, kinda true and all, homie.

Actually, its not, home slice.

We're going to have to agree to disagree here.

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IronLionZion wrote:

nimh wrote:
Dunno exactly how it is in America, but over here both people with university education AND people with only lower education vote above-proportionally leftwing - while its the people in between, who did vocational training and so on, who tend to vote more rightwing.

What you say about lower income voters - which often goes hand in hand with being a minority, unfortunately - voting left wing is true in the States as well.

There's a difference. Over here, the white working class (as far as it still exists) still votes overwhelmingly Labour. Only real exception was the 2002 elections, when many went for (the right-wing populist) Pim Fortuyn, but the year after the pattern was 'restored' again. In America, the Dems seem to have lost many of the white workers along the way. Thats a shame.

Still, its true then that the Dems, too, rely on both top-end and bottom-end voters, so to speak, in terms of education? That does mean you can't make an argument along the lines of, the higher educated, the more liberal.

IronLionZion wrote:

nimh wrote:
Course, there's clear extremes - a low-education/high-income voter is most likely quite far to the right, while high-education/low-income pretty much equates to a green left or socialist party voter ;-).

Yes. And, again, higher education and liberal go hand in hand.

Thats not what I said. I said that high-education/low-income goes hand-in-hand with left-wing sympathies. But among the high-education/high-income voters, many, here at least, vote for right-wing or centrist parties.

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Actually, in Holland it would be a little more complicated than all that also because of our multi-party system, bless it ...

I.e., on the left, the major party is Labour, and the bulk of its supporters still are lower-educated.

But to the left of it, the smaller Green Left has a very high-educated electorate. So do the Democrats, a small centrist party to the right of Labour, whose electorate is as high-edcated as the Greens', but a lot wealthier. The far-left Socialist Party, meanwhile, has a very "proletarian" base but has been attracting an elite constituency the past eight years as well.

On the right, there are two major parties. The voters of the pro-market, libertarian-minded VVD are in majority highly educated. Those of the Christian-Democrats often have average-level education. Voters of the (now quite small) populist right-wing List Fortuyn are overwhelmingly lower-educated.

I think you can pretty much find the same patterns in Germany. The Socialdemocrats' voters are still largely working class, but the Green Party is a different story. Back in 1980, its voters were the poorest of all (squatters, students etc). Now, the Greens have the wealthiest supporters of all. On the right, the large Christian-Democratic party has across-the-board support, while the small Free Democrats have a highly-educated base.

In Britain, the Labour Party is still a working class party, despite 'New Labour' stereotypes. Members of the Conservative Party are much higher educated than those of Labour - though the ever more left-leaning Liberal Democrats "have an even more upmarket social profile".

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nimh wrote:

I think you can pretty much find the same patterns in Germany. The Socialdemocrats' voters are still largely working class, but the Green Party is a different story. Back in 1980, its voters were the poorest of all (squatters, students etc). Now, the Greens have the wealthiest supporters of all. On the right, the large Christian-Democratic party has across-the-board support, while the small Free Democrats have a highly-educated base.

In Britain, the Labour Party is still a working class party, despite 'New Labour' stereotypes. Members of the Conservative Party are much higher educated than those of Labour - though the ever more left-leaning Liberal Democrats "have an even more upmarket social profile".

I doubt that a bit, nimh, since it seems to be too generalizing, especially what you wrote about the Greens in Germany: the wealthiest I know, are teachers. :wink:
The liberalter F.D.P. (Free Democrats), however, are generally considered here as the party of the wealth.

The Social Democrats are loosing a lot of workers - those are mainly to be found nowadays more on the right (and/or at the Christian Democrats).

Both great parties here ("former" for the SPD :wink: ) are called "große Volksparteien" ('big people's parties'), since both claim to cover the whole spectrum.

I know about Labour only from two constituencies in Britain personally: seems, it's changing there as well.

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Walter Hinteler wrote:

I doubt that a bit, nimh, since it seems to be too generalizing, especially what you wrote about the Greens in Germany: the wealthiest I know, are teachers. :wink:

Well, according to this Freitag article it's true:

Quote:

Noch zum Zeitpunkt der Parteigründung verfügt ein durchschnittlicher Grünen-Wähler über das geringste Haushaltseinkommen unter den Wählern der im Bundestag vertretenen Parteien. Zehn Jahre später liegt sein Durchschnittsverdienst bereits über dem von SPD- und CDU-Wählern, und heute verfügt ein Grünen-Wähler über mehr Nettoeinkünfte als ein Anhänger der "Besserverdienenden-Partei" FDP.

Roughly translated:

At the time the party was founded, the average Green voter has the smallest income, compmared to the voters of the other parties represented in parliament. Ten years later, his average wage is already more than that of Socialdemocrat and Christian-Democrat voters, and today a Green voters has more net income than a supporter of the "party of the wealthy", the Free Democrats.

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billy falcon wrote:

The discussion reminds me of a cartoon in the New Yorker some twenty years ago.

A young man is standing in the living room with a couple of suitcases with college pennants on them, his mother next to him, dabbing her eyes with the corner of her apron, his father in an easy chair poking his face around his newspaper says,

"Now, don't you come back with any ideas!"

billy falcon...that's hilarious. A typically wonderful New Yorker cartoon.

Though I usually disagree with thomas (my turn), here I am in full accord. I cannot recall, ever, a professor stating his political views in class. Over coffee or a beer, sure. And that includes something like a dozen departments, in two schools.

There is a reason that dictatorial regimes, when they take over power, commonly head straight to the universities and begin shooting. Knowledge, and the training to question assumptions and claims, are anaethma to the dogmatist and to the authoritarian-minded.

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nimh wrote:

Well, according to this Freitag article it's true:

Hmm, okay :wink: .

Seems, I was only referring to the local/regional representatives, I know and the couple of supportrs (like Mrs. Walter [who is a member of the SPD on the other hand as well Embarrassed

]) :wink:

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This "Beware Professors Befuddling Youth!" campaign doesn't originate with the IWF. It's really as old as the US (see Hofstadter's Anti-Intellectualism in American Life). The present manifestation of it is being pushed by David Horowitz with his 'Academic Bill of Rights' (see here) and the IWF is but one of a group of connected conservative entities forwarding the notion.

The NY Times this morning contained a quote from Rumsfeld on the declining situation in Iraq that I thought a wonderful example of the sort of deception which would be rather more likely to be parsed in a university classroom than at a monster truck rally or barbershop.

Quote:

"We're facing a test of will, and we will meet that test," Defense Secretary Donald H. Rumsfeld said, adding that the plan to postpone the troop return was part of a plan "to systematically address the situations we are facing."

Isn't that slick? The real enemy we ought to be watching out for is questioning and disagreement...ideas, values, perceptions and decisions other than the administration's.

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And under the heading of "Demon/Liberal Organizations in Quest to Ruin All That is Good"...the ACLU is backing Rush Limbaugh in his present legal challenge to investigator access to his medical records.

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And under the heading of "Don't You Dare Record Justice Scalia!"
http://www.nytimes.com/aponline/national/AP-Scalia-Reporters.html

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blatham wrote:

This "Beware Professors Befuddling Youth!" campaign doesn't originate with the IWF. It's really as old as the US (see Hofstadter's Anti-Intellectualism in American Life).

Just out of curiosity, Blatham: Is there any relation of your Hofstadter to Hofstadter the Physics Nobel Laureate, or his son Douglas Hofstadter of "Goedel, Escher, Bach" fame?

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Thomas

I can't say for sure, but if so, I haven't bumped into any note of it.
http://reference.allrefer.com/encyclopedia/H/Hofstadt.html

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ps...he's an extraordinary writer, added bonus. If there's any book I'd recommend on American studies, it is "Anti-Intellectualism..."

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blatham wrote:

And under the heading of "Don't You Dare Record Justice Scalia!"
http://www.nytimes.com/aponline/national/AP-Scalia-Reporters.html

Hehheh ... ->

Quote:

Last year, Scalia was criticized for refusing to allow television and radio coverage of an event in Ohio in which he received an award for supporting free speech.

Nevertheless, Blatham, those above two posts must constitute one of the most tenuous links you've used thus far to divert the focus of a discussion back to your one preferred topic: Iraq in particular and how perfidious this administration is in general. Your political attention seems to be extremely ... focused. Personally, I'm kinda getting sick of the same notes of debate being sounded again, and again, and again ...

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