Why is it so important to refute Christianity?

That don't make it right, husker.

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Re: Yikes!

Deborah B. wrote:

The whole punishing God concept escapes me. Who would turn to a God of that nature?

God punished people all throughout the Bible. starting with Adam. But, I turn to him, because that dosn't make him bad. I punish my girls all the time, but that doesn't make me a bad mom.

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The ancient Hebrews/Israelites/Jews of the Old Testament believed that Yhwh (i.e. Yahweh or God) is the creator of all that was, is, and will be and that nothing happens that He does not will to happen. Therefore we have the concept of righteous anger. So long as the people obeyed God they were beneficiaries of God's blessing. But if they screwed up, God could not go against His own system and His own righteousness required that His wrath be heaped upon them.

Over the millenia, the majority of people of all faiths have evolved and grown and learned. Most who believe in the God of the Old Testament now believe that God's law is one of cause and effect rather than one of reward and punishment. Build your house solidly on a rock on high ground and the wind and waves will not prevail against it. Stick it in a flood plain, and it's pretty silly to blame God if it washes away.

It isn't God's will that your house wash away. It is His will that you build it on a rock on high ground to start with. (This is purely a rhetorical example as illustration and not meant to be a discussion of the merits of building sites.)

Further I think it is an anti-religious and/or anti-Christian media that brings on people like Jerry Falwell as spokesmen for all Christians and I believe this is purely intentional to make all Christians look like raving fundamentalist fanatics. It isn't much different than bringing on Louis Farrakhan as spokespersons for all black people, etc.

Most Christians are a pretty intelligent, reasonable, and sensible bunch and the world is a better place with them in it.

On the other side of that coin are those who do not wish to see any good in Christians or Christianity and even as we speak are typing out their opinion that Christians overall are fanatical, dangerous, and evil people determined to work their will on the country and force everybody to do things as they wish. I think these anti-Christian types can't see that they are guilty of the very things they accuse Christians of being.

I wish we could get to the point where we could put a value out there and debate the merits of that value apart from whether it is liberals, conservatives, Christians, athiests, or whatever who offer an opinion about it.

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Re: Yikes!

onyxelle wrote:

God punished people all throughout the Bible. starting with Adam. But, I turn to him, because that doesn't make him bad. I punish my girls all the time, but that doesn't make me a bad mom.

God of the bible was pretty heavy on capital punishment for some rather miniscule offenses, for instance Lott's wife. Not quite the same thing as cutting back on TV privileges.

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Foxfyre wrote:

The ancient Hebrews/Israelites/Jews of the Old Testament believed that Yhwh (i.e. Yahweh or God) is the creator of all that was, is, and will be and that nothing happens that He does not will to happen. Therefore we have the concept of righteous anger. So long as the people obeyed God they were beneficiaries of God's blessing. But if they screwed up, God could not go against His own system and His own righteousness required that His wrath be heaped upon them.

That is pretty much the way it is written.

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Over the millenia, the majority of people of all faiths have evolved and grown and learned.

I agree.

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Most who believe in the God of the Old Testament now believe that God's law is one of cause and effect rather than one of reward and punishment.

You base that opinion on what?

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Further I think it is an anti-religious and/or anti-Christian media that brings on people like Jerry Falwell as spokesmen for all Christians and I believe this is purely intentional to make all Christians look like raving fundamentalist fanatics.

Falwell made his infamous 9/11 statement on the 700 club, hardly a bastion of anti-christianity.

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Most Christians are a pretty intelligent, reasonable, and sensible bunch and the world is a better place with them in it.

Most Christians are no better or no worse than non-christians. You will not find me criticizing christians as a group. I may have some unkind things to say about their text book. I do oppose any attempt to impose religious beliefs into the government sphere and I support the removal of influence which has previously slipped in.

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On the other side of that coin are those who do not wish to see any good in Christians or Christianity and even as we speak are typing out their opinion that Christians overall are fanatical, dangerous, and evil people determined to work their will on the country and force everybody to do things as they wish. I think these anti-Christian types can't see that they are guilty of the very things they accuse Christians of being.

Nothing but hateful drivel. Nothing worth replying to.

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I wish we could get to the point where we could put a value out there and debate the merits of that value apart from whether it is liberals, conservatives, Christians, athiests, or whatever who offer an opinion about it.

Hate to surprise you kiddo, but use labels as much as anyone here.

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Re: Yikes!

mesquite wrote:

God of the bible was pretty heavy on capital punishment for some rather miniscule offenses, for instance Lott's wife. Not quite the same thing as cutting back on TV privileges.

true...but my point is the same.

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onyxelle,

You never answered a direct question I'd posed to you:

Do you believe that atheists such as myself will be tortured in hell for all eternity?

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Info on Hell

Another

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Some people believe atheists will suffer a separation from God for all eternity.

Of course, they may like that.

Husker, what is the story about the guy who was in Hell, and was so desperate to warn his brother--but wasn't allowed to...? I've forgotten where this is in the Bible. Do you know what I'm talking about?

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When I first read it as a child, I thought---How is this guy able to have rational conversations while he'sburning eternally, and those little gnomes are sticking him with tridents?

I got a different view of Hell.... It has continued to change.

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husker wrote:

Info on Hell

Another

I'm aware of the different view of hell so I didn't bother reading the links. Maybe you can answer the question.

Do you believe that atheists such as myself will burn in hell for all eternity?

It's relevant to this question. See, depending on the answer this thread can be rephrased to say:

"Why is it so important to refute my belief that you will burn in hell forever?"

Christians here often complain about their beliefs being challenged. If their beliefs are tantamount to saying that those of us who do not share these beliefs are going to burn forever it lends some unstated perspective.

So to the Christians here, I again ask:

Do you believe that we atheists and heathens will burn in hell for eternity?

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We agnostics will burn half the time and freeze the other half - for being wishy washy...

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Craven de Kere wrote:

onyxelle,

You never answered a direct question I'd posed to you:

Do you believe that atheists such as myself will be tortured in hell for all eternity?

sorry CDK here we go:

I believe in heaven and hell, and I believe we're all going to one place or the other. That leads me to believe that people who die seperated from God are going to be seperated from Him in eternal life also. It's not just for atheists though, it's for people who believe in God, but who haven't accepted Jesus as Lord and Savior.

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In that case, I think atheists have as much a right to complain about Christians discussing their beliefs as Christians would have when atheists agressively debunk them.

In many ways, Christians here frequently ask for a peaceful discussion about a belief that a substantial portion of the members on this site will burn for eternity in hell.

In that regard I think "attacking" the belief is downright friendly in comparison to what you believe will happen to us when we die.

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I don't have a problem with anyone discussing anything. I started this thread only because I wanted to know people's personal reasons as to why the belief in God is a normal topic of discussion for those who do not believe. If what you just said is one of the reasons. so be it.

I can't speak for anyone else, but I am not sitting here thinking about anyone going to hell. While I do believe in hell, I don't know if it is symbolic or the burning is symbolic or anything, so I've never told anyone they're going to burn in hell.

Whether a person chooses to believe or not, I don't let it affect me one way or the other, the only thing that I care about is whether or not I believe. Sometimes I wonder and I question (even before I came to a2k) and I always wonder about hell. I don't know the mind of God, and I don't really know what will happen to people who don't believe. I said "seperation" because I don't know if that means burning or not - which is why I did not say that.

BTW, is there a thread going in which the topic of discussion is the burning in hell of all non-believers? I'd like to look at that (really).

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It might be fun to start one?

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onyxelle wrote:

I don't have a problem with anyone discussing anything. I started this thread only because I wanted to know people's personal reasons as to why the belief in God is a normal topic of discussion for those who do not believe.

There is an important point you are missing here, Onyx. At a place such as this, the topic comes up frequently. In my daily life away from the computer screen, the topic hardly ever comes up, and it is someone else who mentions it when it does. It might help to understand that for those of us who do not have your beliefs, this simply is not important in our everyday lives, and it only gets dicussed when the fervently faithful foist the topic off on us. Have you considered that you may encounter the topic more frequently than i, for example, because of its relative importance to you?

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Setanta wrote:

Have you considered that you may encounter the topic more frequently than i, for example, because of its relative importance to you?

Set - you're always so clear. I have never even thought of that, and there we have it. I guess it could be because of it's importance to me that it always stands out.

It will probably not come as a surprise though (or maybe it would?) that it's not a topic that comes up often for me either. When I say often, I mean my regular daily conversations - unless someone else brings it up. Sometimes, however, I bring it up, but only with people I know believe as I do. That could carry with it it's own set of complexities (maybe I never bring it up because I don't want to be in a defending position - as you guy's have seen, lol I'm not the best at that).

Thanks for you view Set. You shed new light.

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Hmmm - though probably, in life in general, the folk who agree with you will nod happily, and those who do not will glaze over silently, and nod politely? I mean, people do not usually argue so much over stuff so much as they do here.

I would only ever make a comment to religious people if they persisted in shoving it down my throat.

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In the years that I have been on internet forums (4-5) I have discussed religion more than I had in the rest of my entire life.

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Why is it so important to refute Christianity?

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