Why is it so important to refute Christianity?

I don't dismiss religion because of its illogicality; I don't think it is meant to be logical. Religion should be taken as thoroughly metaphorical and directed to the right side of our brain (not that I take the hemisphere theory of the brain as an established fact).

As any good actor knows, the point of language is its impact on other people, not its descriptive value.

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Did you know the ten commandments are the moral bedrock upon which the America's constitution stands....In 1778 Madison wrote "We have staked the whole future of American civilization not upon the power of government, far from it. We have staked the future of all our political institutions upon the capacity of mankind for self-government, upon the capacity of each and all of us to govern ourselves, to control ourselves, to sustain ourselves according to the Ten Commandments."

This is a complete fabrication that dates back to the 1950s. A variation of this fabrication -- and there are several -- was read into the Congressional Record by Representative Dannemeyer on October 7, 1992. Another variation was later read into the Congressional Record by Florida Representative Scarborough on March 5, 1997, in defense of Judge Roy Moore's practice of posting a condensed version of the Protestant variant of the first tables of stone rendition of the Hebrew Decalogue on his courtroom wall, in full view of the Jury Box containing what would otherwise have been an impartial jury. Scarborough used this fabrication long after David Barton, its most vehement proponent, had declared the alleged quotation "false" and had asked people to stop using it (see Rob Boston's 1996 article "Mything in Action: David Barton's 'Questionable Quotes'").

Alley, Robert S. 1997. "Memo to U.S. Congress: Thou Shalt Not Bear False History." In Church & State, June 1997, vol. 50, no. 6.

"The ACLU has got to take a lot of blame for this. I really believe that the pagans, and the abortionists, and the feminists, and the gays and the lesbians who are actively trying to make that an alternative lifestyle, the ACLU, People for the American Way -- all of them who have tried to secularize America -- I point the finger in their face and say, 'You helped this happen.'" -- The Rev. Jerry Falwell, in a Sept. 13 appearance on "The 700 Club." He later apologized for making the statement.

Ok, after thinking about this for a few minutes, I believe I remember what was being discussed. I think this was a comment he made concerning the 9/11 attacks. It was his misguided way of trying to say that God let this happen due to America's sin in turning from God and embracing un-Godly lifestyles. So now I will comment on it.

I think he stuck a huge foot in his mouth. It was a terrorist attack. The groups he listed were no more responsible for the attacks than the Bush Admin that everyone seems to be pointing at right now. It was the terrorist group. So yes, he made a fool of himself. People tend to do that every now and then. Even Christians. Just because he is a Christian does not mean he will never do something or say something stupid/mean spirited. At least he apoligized for it.

I am not here defending him because what he said is indefensable. Is that enough comment or is there some other aspect you wish me to address Mesquite?

I saw a post on this forum once where a "good christian" suggested that a member's friend who died of breast cancer was punished by god. Let's just say that in my mind people of that ilk don't do the cause of believers being rational any good at all.

What is ironic about that quote, Mesquite, is this: " . . . all of them who have tried to secularize America . . . "

Hello . . . it's been secular since its inception. The danger, to my mind, is the attempt to make it a relgious nation.

Yikes...that is pretty scary. As a Christian who is also on the Board for the Komen NJ Race for the Cure does this mean I am wasting my time raising funds to help eradicate breast cancer as a life threatening disease? And I thought I was doing a good thing.

God doesn't cause any of this stuff in my opinion. I just don't get some people's attributions to God. But then I'm sure that there are those who don't get mine either. The whole punishing God concept escapes me. Who would turn to a God of that nature? There are enough people in the world who fit that bill and you would just have to look at them. The relationships would require no faith.

As I walked through the wilderness of this world, I lighted on a certain place where was a Den, and I laid me down in that place to sleep: and, as I slept, I dreamed a dream. I dreamed, and behold, I saw a man clothed with rags, standing in a certain place, with his face from his own house, a book in his hand, and a great burden upon his back. I looked, and saw him open the book, and read therein; and, as he read, he wept, and trembled; and, not being able longer to contain, he brake out with a lamentable cry, saying, What shall I do?

In this plight, therefore, he went home and refrained himself as long as he could, that his wife and children should not perceive his distress; but he could not be silent long, because that his trouble increased. Wherefore at length he brake his mind to his wife and children; and thus he began to talk to them: O my dear wife, said he, and you the children of my bowels, I, your dear friend, am in myself undone by reason of a burden that lieth hard upon me; moreover, I am for certain informed that this our city will be burned with fire from heaven; in which fearful overthrow, both myself, with thee my wife, and you my sweet babes, shall miserably come to ruin, except (the which yet I see not) some way of escape can be found, whereby we may be delivered. At this his relations were sore amazed; not for that they believed that what he had said to them was true, but because they thought that some frenzy distemper had got into his head; therefore, it drawing towards night, and they hoping that sleep might settle his brains, with all haste they got him to bed. But the night was as troublesome to him as the day; wherefore, instead of sleeping, he spent it in sighs and tears. So, when the morning was come, they would know how he did. He told them, Worse and worse: he also set to talking to them again; but they began to be hardened. They also thought to drive away his distemper by harsh and surly carriages to him; sometimes they would deride, sometimes they would chide, and sometimes they would quite neglect him. Wherefore he began to retire himself to his chamber, to pray for and pity them, and also to condole his own misery; he would also walk solitarily in the fields, sometimes reading, and sometimes praying: and thus for some days he spent his time.

Now, I saw, upon a time, when he was walking in the fields, that he was, as he was wont, reading in his book, and greatly distressed in his mind; and, as he read, he burst out, as he had done before, crying, What shall I do to be saved?

I saw also that he looked this way and that way, as if he would run; yet he stood still, because, as I perceived, he could not tell which way to go. I looked then, and saw a man named Evangelist coming to him, who asked, Wherefore dost thou cry? He answered, Sir, I perceive by the book in my hand, that I am condemned to die, and after that to come to judgment; and I find that I am not willing to do the first, nor able to do the second.

Christian no sooner leaves the World but meets Evangelist, who lovingly him greets With tidings of another: and doth shew Him how to mount to that from this below.

Then said Evangelist, Why not willing to die, since this life is attended with so many evils? The man answered, Because I fear that this burden that is upon my back will sink me lower than the grave, and I shall fall into Tophet. And, Sir, if I be not fit to go to prison, I am not fit, I am sure, to go to judgment, and from thence to execution; and the thoughts of these things make me cry.

Then said Evangelist, If this be thy condition, why standest thou still? He answered, Because I know not whither to go. Then he gave him a parchment roll, and there was written within, Flee from the wrath to come.

The man, therefore, read it, and looking upon Evangelist very carefully, said, Whither must I fly? Then said Evangelist, pointing with his finger over a very wide field, Do you see yonder wicket-gate? The man said, No. Then said the other, Do you see yonder shining light? He said, I think I do. Then said Evangelist, Keep that light in your eye, and go up directly thereto: so shalt thou see the gate; at which, when thou knockest, it shall be told thee what thou shalt do.

So I saw in my dream that the man began to run. Now, he had not run far from his own door, but his wife and children, perceiving it, began to cry after him to return; but the man put his fingers in his ears, and ran on, crying, Life! life! eternal life! So he looked not behind him, but fled towards the middle of the plain.

The neighbours also came out to see him run; and, as he ran, some mocked, others threatened, and some cried after him to return; and, among those that did so, there were two that resolved to fetch him back by force. The name of the one was Obstinate and the name of the other Pliable. Now, by this time, the man was got a good distance from them; but, however, they were resolved to pursue him, which they did, and in a little time they overtook him. Then said the man, Neighbours, wherefore are ye come? They said, To persuade you to go back with us. But he said, That can by no means be; you dwell, said he, in the City of Destruction, the place also where I was born: I see it to be so; and, dying there, sooner or later, you will sink lower than the grave, into a place that burns with fire and brimstone: be content, good neighbours, and go along with me.

Wilso wrote:

I saw a post on this forum once where a "good christian" suggested that a member's friend who died of breast cancer was punished by god. Let's just say that in my mind people of that ilk don't do the cause of believers being rational any good at all.

Yikes...that is pretty scary. As a Christian who is also on the Board for the Komen NJ Race for the Cure does this mean I am wasting my time raising funds to help eradicate breast cancer as a life threatening disease? And I thought I was doing a good thing.

God doesn't cause any of this stuff in my opinion. I just don't get some people's attributions to God. But then I'm sure that there are those who don't get mine either. The whole punishing God concept escapes me. Who would turn to a God of that nature? There are enough people in the world who fit that bill and you would just have to look at them. The relationships would require no faith.

Alabama 1901, Preamble. "We the people of the State of Alabama, invoking the favor and guidance of Almighty God, do ordain and establish the following Constitution . "

Alaska 1956, Preamble. "We, the people of Alaska, grateful to God and to those who founded our nation and pioneered this great land ... "

Arizona 1911, Preamble. "We, the people of the State of Arizona, grateful to Almighty God for our liberties, do ordain this Constitution... "

Arkansas 1874, Preamble. "We, the people of the State of Arkansas, grateful to Almighty God for the privilege of choosing our own form of government... "

California 1879, Preamble. "We, the People of the State of California, grateful to Almighty God for our freedom...."

Colorado 1876, Preamble. "We, the people of Colorado, with profound reverence for the Supreme Ruler of Universe .. "

Connecticut 1818, Preamble. "The People of Connecticut, acknowledging with gratitude the good Providence of God in permitting them to enjoy . "

Delaware 1897, Preamble. "Through Divine Goodness all men have, by nature, the rights of worshipping and serving their Creator according to the dictates of their consciences .. "

Florida 1885, Preamble. "We, the people of the State of Florida, grateful to Almighty God for our constitutional liberty ... establish this Constitution... "

Georgia 1777, Preamble. "We, the people of Georgia, relying upon protection and guidance of Almighty God, do ordain and establish this Constitution... "

Hawaii 1959, Preamble. "We, the people of Hawaii, Grateful for Divine Guidance .. establish this Constitution "

Idaho 1889, Preamble. "We, the people of the State of Idaho, grateful to Almighty God for our freedom, to secure its blessings .. "

Illinois 1870, Preamble. "! We, the people of the State of Illinois, grateful to Almighty God for the civil, political and religious liberty which He hath so long permitted us to enjoy and looking to Him for a blessing on our endeavors .. "

Indiana 1851, Preamble. "We, the People of the State of Indiana, grateful to Almighty God for the free exercise of the right to chose our form of government . .."

Iowa 1857, Preamble. "We, the People of the State of Iowa, grateful to the Supreme Being for the blessings hitherto enjoyed, and feeling our dependence on Him for a continuation of these blessings ... establish this Constitution "

Kansas 1859, Preamble. "We, the people of Kansas, grateful to Almighty God for our civil and religious privileges ... establish this Constitution. "

Kentucky 1891, Preamble. "We, the people of the Commonwealth of Kentucky are grateful to Almighty God for the civil, political and religious liberties... "

Louisiana 1921, Preamble. "We, the people of the State of Louisiana, grateful to Almighty God for the civil, political and religious liberties we enjoy ..."

Maine 1820, Preamble. "We the People of Maine .. acknowledging with grateful hearts the goodness of the Sovereign Ruler of the Universe in affording us an opportunity .... and imploring His aid and direction . ..."

Maryland 1776, Preamble. "We, the people of the state of Maryland, grateful to Almighty God for our civil and religious liberty... "

Massachusetts 1780, Preamble. "We...the people of Massachusetts, acknowledging with grateful hearts, the goodness of the Great Legislator of the Universe... in the course of His Providence, an opportunity ..and devoutly imploring His direction . "

Michigan 1908, Preamble. "We, the people of the State of Michigan, grateful to Almighty God for the blessings of freedom ... establish this Constitution "

Minnesota, 1857, Preamble. "We, the people of the State of Minnesota, grateful to God for our civil and religious liberty, and desiring to perpetuate its blessings . "

Mississippi 1890, Preamble. "We, the people of Mississippi in convention assembled, grateful to Almighty God, and invoking His blessing on our work. ..."

Missouri 1845, Preamble. "We, the people of Missouri, with profound reverence for the Supreme Ruler of the Universe, and grateful for His goodness . .establish this Constitution ... "

Montana 1889, Preamble. "We, the people of Montana, grateful to Almighty God for the blessings of liberty establish this Constitution .. "

Nebraska 1875, Preamble. "We, the people, grateful to Almighty God for our freedom .. establish this Constitution .. ."

Nevada 1864, Preamble. "We the people of the State of Nevada, grateful to Almighty God for our freedom ... establish this Constitution .. ."

New Hampshire 1792, Part I. Art. I. Sec. V. "Every individual has a natural and unalienable right to worship God according to the dictates of his own conscience . "

New Jersey 1844, Preamble. "We, the people of the State of New Jersey, grateful to Almighty God for civil and religious liberty which He hath so long permitted us to enjoy, and looking to Him for a blessing on our endeavors ...."
New Mexico 1911, Preamble. "We, the People of New Mexico, grateful to Almighty God for the blessings of liberty .. "

New York 1846, Preamble. "We, the people of the State of New York, grateful to Almighty God for our freedom, in order to secure its blessings . "

North Carolina 1868, Preamble. "We the people of the State of North Carolina, grateful to Almighty God, the Sovereign Ruler of Nations, for our civil, political, and religious liberties, and acknowledging our dependence upon Him for the continuance of those . ."

North Dakota 1889, Preamble. "We, the people of North Dakota, grateful to Almighty God for the blessings of civil and religious liberty, do ordain... "

Ohio 1852, Preamble. "We the people of the state of Ohio, grateful to Almighty God for our freedom, to secure its blessings and to promote our common .. "

Oklahoma 1907, Preamble. "Invoking the guidance of Almighty God, in order to secure and perpetuate the blessings of liberty ..... establish this... "

Oregon 1857, Bill of Rights, Article I. Section 2. "All men shall be secure in the Natural right, to worship Almighty God according to the dictates of their consciences . "

Pennsylvania 1776, Preamble. "We, the people of Pennsylvania, grateful to Almighty God for the blessings of civil and religious liberty, and humbly invoking His guidance . ..."

Rhode Island 1842, Preamble. "We the People of the State of Rhode Island grateful to Almighty God for the civil and religious liberty which He hath so long permitted us to enjoy, and looking to Him for a blessing ..."

South Carolina, 1778, Preamble. "We, the people of the State of South Carolina . grateful to God for our liberties, do ordain and establish this Constitution .. "

South Dakota 1889, Preamble. "We, the people of South Dakota, grateful to Almighty God for our civil and religious liberties ... establish this ...."

Tennessee 1796, Art. XI.III. "That all men have a natural and indefeasible right to worship Almighty God according to the dictates of their conscience... "

Texas 1845, Preamble. "We the People of the Republic of Texas, acknowledging, with gratitude, the grace and beneficence of God .. "

Utah 1896, Preamble. "Grateful to Almighty God for life and liberty, we establish this Constitution .. "

Vermont 1777, Preamble. "Whereas all government ought to ... enable the individuals who compose it to enjoy their natural rights, and other blessings which the Author of Existence has bestowed on man ..... "

Virginia 1776, Bill of Rights, XVI ... "Religion, or the Duty which we owe our Creator ... can be directed only by Reason .. and that it is the mutual duty of all to practice Christian Forbearance, Love and Charity towards each other ... "

Washington 1889, Preamble. "We the People of the State of Washington, grateful to the Supreme Ruler of the Universe for our liberties, do ordain this Constitution .. "

West Virginia 1872, Preamble. "Since through Divine Providence we enjoy the blessings of civil, political and religious liberty, we, the people of West Virginia .. reaffirm our faith in and constant reliance upon God .. "

Wisconsin 1848, Preamble. "We, the people of Wisconsin, grateful to Almighty God for our freedom, domestic tranquility ... "

Wyoming 1890, Preamble. "We, the people of the State of Wyoming, grateful to God for our civil, political, and religious liberties ... establish this Constitution .. "

After reviewing acknowledgments of God from all 50 state constitutions, one is faced with the prospect that maybe, just maybe, the out-of-control federal courts are wrong!

How long are we going to put up with the deliberate destruction of the foundations of our great nation before we take a stand and put a stop to it. Pass this along to all your Email friends and your governmental representaives and let's begin to make a difference. Let your local, state, and federal officials know where you stand and let them know that you will be watching them to see where they stand.


"Those people who will not be governed by God will be ruled by tyrants." William Penn