Why is it so important to refute Christianity?

gov't funding of religious schools here is a no no...in florida we're going up and down about that very thing - and I'm effin pissed that it's being done.

vouchers make me SICK

One of my Christian friends is a very fine man, of about seventy years of age, a member of the Church of Christ. He used to make frequent trips to Guyana (sp?) to do the church's work. He is a self efacing man, very gentle and kind. I have helped him to plant blackberries and have repaired his phone service a few times. In the eight years I have known him he has never broached religion in my presence. A few years ago I saw a note from him on the community bulletin board, in which he invited people to come to his home for religious discussions and instruction. I have long considered this person to be one of the finest men of my acquaintance. But, about a week ago, he asked the assistant manager where I work about her church-going habits. She mentioned that she also was a member of the Church of Christ, whereupon he invited her to ride to church with he and his wife that next Sunday. She declined. From that moment, for about six days, he bombarded her with phone calls, beseeching her to attend his church. Nine calls in one day. She tried in the course of it to tell him she had decided to start attending the manager's Baptist Church, hoping that little fib would end it. "That's not our church," he told her again and again. One night, he thought about the fact that she did not have his phone number, just in case she needed to communicate with him over this. He went to her appartment and was in the act of placing his number with a note on her door when her son opened up and informed the asistant manager he was there. "I don't want to talk to anybody right now," she said from her bedroom. The man then went home. At this point I went to his door and said, "Can I talk to you as a friend?" He invited me in and I laid out her case as diplomatically as I could. He agreed to back off, and I could see he had truly not intended to harrass or offend her. The question of this thread is, Why do people feel they need to refute religion? Well, as stories like this illustrate, even the kindest, most well meaning of Christians hound people in ways we would never inflict on Christians. People like my friend cannot understand why they can't have us pray in school, or say the cock-eyed pledge of allegiance. They mean it from the goodness of their heart. But they just can't take no for an answer.

Just to set the record straight, anything Peter Jennings says about Jesus and Paul's relationship (yes, I am Paul) is highly circumspect.

Catholic schools here recently got a $300 000 000 INCREASE on top of their current funding. To say it makes my f@cking blood boil is an understatement.

truth
Craven, I too only partly endorse the "Golden Rule". Consider George Bernard Shaw's caveat: "Do not do unto others as you would have them do unto you; their tastes may be different".
But more seriously, I do think the Golden Rule is best seen in terms of the a-solipsistic principle that others must be viewed and treated as subjects, not objects (Martin Buber had something to say about that).

truth
I don't dismiss religion because of its illogicality; I don't think it is meant to be logical. Religion should be taken as thoroughly metaphorical and directed to the right side of our brain (not that I take the hemisphere theory of the brain as an established fact). Religion should be seen within the category of the arts, not the sciences. But when Christian fundamentalists (or any fundamentalists) try to oppose the findings of science with literalized religious beliefs, my sympathy stops there. I do agree with someone's reference to "my" fear factor. I do fear the power that the Pat Robertson's of the world have been acquiring in the political sphere. Just imagine: he ran for President of the United States.

I remember Petey when he first came south of the border to work for NBC--he used to say "shed-duel," and "aboot." Some of us have known of this Canajun stealth news reader for very long indeed . . .

Sadly, I must admit edgar, that you are right. There are far to many Bible-Toting Christians out in the world that want to lay seige to every person they think is not going to church on a regular basis (Even I hide from the long-skirt wearing jehovah witnesses & other church folk when I see them trotting down my street w/ their pamphlets and stuff - I do not answer the door).

Personally, my faith is mine, and while I do share it with others who do not believe, I ususally do so when it comes in in topic, or if it has something to do with present conversation. Some people (a lot of people) don't think I do as much as I should to bear witness to people, but I just do a more subtle thing and I don't go around with "Thus saith the Lord" hanging out of my mouth. I won't lie, the Bible tells us to win souls for the Lord, and while I've never actually 'led' anyone to Christ, when I do mass invitations to concerts and fairs and plays that my church puts on, it's in the hope that that will happen if and when they come.

I know a lot of Christians that are not nearly as easy going about it as I am, and that plays a big part in making the world at large think of us as trying to charismatically (or not so much that) get everyone over to this side...

You guys & gals never sway my faith, but once again, it's always interesting for me to think on the things that are said in these threads.

onyxelle
I know you are "one of the good ones" but I shall nevertheless remain on my guard. LOL

onyxelle- I can certainly respect your attitude. I really become angered when someone attempts to hawk their religion to me. IMO that exhibits a deep disdain for the other person.

It is one thing when two intelligent people discuss religion. It is quite another when one person is attempting to proselytize. Yuk!

It's a good thing none of us here are out to sway your faith, onyx. I also know we all appreciate that you are not out to sway ours either. This is the kind of religious discussion I enjoy.

That Onyx is too a converter . . .


She wants to convince us all that her little girls are the smartest, cutest, liveliest . . .

Fortunately for her, the girls put on a good show . . .

Hee hee...they are cuties...

Ever seen a little girl that's not cute?

Yep...some are downright fugly, or obnoxious enough to completely outweigh the cute factor.

always goes over big when you tell someone that there baby is ugly.
:wink:
like we'ver ever seen an ugly baby right

Onyx - i am interested - why, do you think, that none of what we say sways your faith? Is there anything which could?

hehehehe they ARE cute aren't they? a buncha troublemakers they both are though....no matter

Dlowan:

For me, and in my life, when I do things like pray, it causes things to happen. My entire attitude is based on my belief that there is something a bazillion times better waiting for me when I die or when Jesus comes back, whichever comes first. For me, the God portrayed in the Bible, the one that I believe in, reminds me of a parent. While some of the things in the Bible are a mystery to me, as to the slaughtering of entire communities down to the last ewe, mother, lamb and child, The bulk of the bible speaks volumes to me of morality and gives me reasons (outside caring for my girls) to live. It gives me hope and It's something I believe in very deeply.

I don't have a problem being presented with logical statements, and I know that faith and belief is so not in line with 1+1=2, but that's what makes it faith. it's not something you know to be true - it's something you believe in entirely. When I flip my light switch, I don't do so in faith, because I know I mailed my check the week before, so therefore, I know my light is going to come on when I flip that switch. I wish I had a nice analogy for faith, but I don't.....it's kind of unexplainable. The only thing I can say that represents my faith is prayer. I pray for things, with the faith that they will come out as I'd like them to - however - I always pray that His will be done. Does that help? I'm not swayed because if my faith in God was so weak, that arguments of science and logic could outweight it, then why would I bother to have any at all?

It would pain me dreadfully - and maybe this is the heart of it all for me - if all there was, was this hellish state of earth that we live in, and It's going to only get worse...Believing in a mightier power gives me much hope and encouragement.

There is a theory among some radical Christian thinkers that there is no virtual hell as described in the bible, but that true hell is our life on earth.

Re: Why is it so important to refute Christianity?

I would caution you that people who like to argue start a lot more threads than people who don't, which skews your statistics to overemphasize the hardliners on both sides.


Most American agnostics and atheists are the children of at least mildly religious parents. Most children are raised to believe in more or less the same things their parents do, and a change of mind is often accompanied by intense discussion and arguing. Those children who stuck with the faith of their childhood never had to explain themselves as much as the converts to agnosticism and atheism did.

This is consistent with what I observe when I travel to Eastern Germany. Fourty years of communism has made this region a largely agnostic one. I have a vague memory that only 30 percent or so adhere to any religion at all. Nevertheless, the willingness of East German atheists to argue with believers is much less pronounced than that of American atheists.