Why is it so important to refute Christianity?

z's quote, "And thanks for helping cirerone with what I said about a Christian not being able to convert anybody." All them missionaries are all wasting their time.

Your comment reveals you still don't get it. Foxfyre's comment
to you went right over your head. I still thank him for trying.

Addressing the thread, Why should we refute ----.

Simply because a world view based on imaginary (fantastic) deities is not likely to be very effective at reducing the pain and suffering that goes on in the world today. (Even us rabid Athiests don't think that's nice)

The Abrahamic religions have held sway over about half of the worlds civilized people for some six thousand years and still have not managed to govern in a nice way (for everybody) yet.

From the Jews in Canaan, to the Moors in Spain, to the Emperor of Japan, and the Muslims in Sudan today Diests of one sort or another have inflicted more pain and suffering on humanity than any other idea that the imaginations of humanity have inflicted upon themselves.

You all know that partheogenisis is not observed in mammals. Yet one has virgin births. We are all familiar with Issac Newton. You have bodily ascensions (Christ and Mohammed). We are familiar with sexual reproduction. You give us "original sin". We are familiar with economic theories. You give us "Chosen peoples".

Christians especially should realize how ridiculous it is for them to deny facts and observations and embrace "fantasies" in their efforts to understand and control the world and its inhabitants.

If you don't think Christians seriously attempt to control the world and its inhabitants why is it necessary for homosexuals to get married
Why did the Jackson girls mammary gland cause such a stir at the Bowl game? The Ten Commandment fuss in the courthouse?

It is a sad commentary on our society when a display of young womans mammary gland (primarily intended to feed infants) excites more comment than the probablities of the leader of the free world lying to his citizens about the reasons for war, killing and pillage.

We Athiests are particularily interested in refuting Christianity (along with the other fantastic ideas that appear from time to time) because there is a very real possibility that some nutty Diest will blow us all up for the aggrandizement of his particular God, whatever he calls it!

Personally I have no interest in prematurely examining the myths about Heaven, Hell, or Paradise.

Well stated, akaMech. It not is only a waste of time, but there is no evidence that dieties have helped humankind in any way shape or form - faith based or otherwise.

it's important to refute christianity in the same light as we refute cancer; pathologies be they somatic, social or psycholical in origin are equally destructive. the years that western civilization that were dominated by the church we now refer to as the "dark ages" with good reason. the years we refer to as the "enlightenment" are the self-same years that threw off the bonds of the mystio-rational hyper-babble of religion. commonality is not evidence of value, it is evidence of vulgarity.

hear hear.....

Yes, you would expect them to be about their
spiritual father's business, just as I am about
mine.

About mines? And you think it's way over my head?

Thanks, I fixed it. I do have two. One in my head
and one in my spirit.

No prob. My spelling is also not perfect.

Z,
Thanks for answering the question re satan in such a thorough manner. I have to tell you though, I still find it very difficult to fathom how the concept of a loving god arises out of such an explanation. This logic hungry mind of mine just finds to many irrationalities to see such a tale as anything but a heck of a big whopper. Not much chance of changing my spots at this late date. Thanks again for your interpretation.

I think we may have been down this path before, but I find it difficult to understand how once one decides to see some biblical stories as merely allegories others can be accepted as divine truth.

I rather think that most Christians don't give it a whole lot of thought one way or the other. It is just accepted because that is what they were taught.

What do you mean by all Christians have experienced God? Are you speaking of the born again variety? That just seems to be a rather bold statement. I have seen a few here make that claim of themselves, but I do not think even a majority of the Christian posters here have said such.

mesquite, It's one of religion's mysteries that unless you "experience god," it's impossible to explain what that means. It's sort of a mystical experience - from what I can gather. Only christians know it's true meaning. The only problem I have with these kinds of experience is that it's impossible for us laymen to identify who they are - unless they tell us who they are. We now have two people on A2K. Any more out there? I want to meet them in person one of these days to see if they have a halo above their heads.

mesquite,
There is Christian "the label" that many people wear. They call themselves Christians for many reasons. They belong
to a church, they believe in God, their parents were Christians, they were born in America, they believe the
Bible even though they can't tell you much about it, and
on and on and on. The are called nominal Christians. In
name only. I said in a former post that you really shouldn't
call yourself a Christian because you hang around a church
anymore than you should call yourself an airplane because
you hang around an airport. A lot of "Christians" know about
God, but they don't know God. I know about our country's
president, but I don't know him personally and do not have
a personal relationship with him. Same thing about God.

Jesus says, "My sheep know me by the sound of my voice."
That is a good test if you know God personally or not. Are
we able to recognize when He is speaking to us. Are we
wondering if it is Him or some other spirit or just our brain
playing tricks. I am not talking about an audible voice
necessarily. Usually not. God can talk to me through what
another person says to me sometimes. There is a quickening
or unction in my spirit that let's me know that message was
from God. There is no doubt in my mind. I know that I know
that I know it was Him. I know the sound of His voice.
Why? Because I have built a relationship with Him. Why?
Because I cried out to Him and He touched me. That is
the born again spiritual experience that not everybody that
calls themselves Christians have had. Why? Because they
are satisfied with the label and are not hungry for God for
whatever reason. Many churches, believe it or not, don't
even teach about the born again experience. Sad. Jesus
plainly says that no one can come to the Father except by
Him. There is no other way. If there was, someone would
have found it by now. Why would a person want another
way when it can't be any easier than God's way.

If you are interested you can go to the 3rd chapter of the
Gospel of John and read about Jesus talkin to Nicodemus
about the born experience and how it is a must if you are going to be received into the kingdom of God. There is no other way to enter. It is not complicated. Here is the door all you have to do is walk through it. It takes a thelogian to
complicate it. God kept is simple so even a demented person could understand how to do it. Why did God chose
this way to do it? I don't know and I don't care.

You are right about real Christians not trying to think with
their heads to much. They don't have to anymore. They
have the indwelling of the Holy Spirit and to guide and teach
them and it is not a head issue anymore. It is a heart issue.
I am not talking about that pump that pumps blood either.
This "heart" is the indwelling Spirit of God that gives us peace and no reason to try to figure out God anymore. We know He is real because we feel Him in us and working on and with us. We see the change that takes place in our lives. Other people see it to. That is the best way to witness to people is to let them see Christ living in you seperate from any effort you may attempt to appear spiritual. People
notice that and want to know what happened to you. They
can tell, in time, if it is a phony put on or not.

Things happen in mine and my families lives that defy natural description. It is called supernatural. It happens
to often to be luck and people all around us realize that. "The peace that surpasses all understanding". It is available to anyone who wants it. God is no respector of
persons. Anybody is eligible that is willing to take that
step of faith. The world says, "I will believe it when I see it".
God and his sheep say, "Believe it and you will see it."

Z

"Unction in my spirit" must be the same when people worship the devil, witchcraft, voodoo, and the sun god. I wonder how they know which is which?

You got it. They recognize there god's action the same way I
recogonize my God's action. By famaliarity. I can recognize
their god's spirit too. They can recongize mine too. I had one
guy run, in pure terror, from me and all I did was walk in the
room where he was. He was a pure demon posessed devil
worshiper. I recognized his spirit and he recognized
mine. It is called the gift of descerning of spirits. That particular
man is now a real Christian and we now laugh about the experience.

I always knew fear works wonders.

While as a generalized statement that may be true…


…I’m not so sure this is:



The problem is not with God, god, or gods, it’s with man. As the unGod governments have proved:


20th century

Killed in Warfare: 39 million
Killed by Lenin and Stalin: 62 million
Killed by Mao Tse-tung: 35 million
Killed by Hitler: 21 million

Ah, c'mon, God still kills more than any of 'em.

I think you got your gods mixed up. You should
have spelled that with a little "g". The God of
the Bible doesn't have any death in Him, only life.
How would He do what you claim?

John 10:10 (Amplifed Bible)
The thief (satan) comes in order to steal and
kill and destroy. I (Jesus) came that they may
have and enjoy life, and have it in abundance
(to the full, till it overflows)