Why is it so important to refute Christianity?

I wonder if athiests ever wonder why they spend so
much of their energy fighting against what they claim
does not exist? Do they ever wonder why Christians want
to share with them the "Good News" that would gain them
everything and cost them nothing? Do they ever wonder why
a Christian would even attempt to reach them when there is
no gain involved, in the natural rhelm, for their efforts
to share? Why does the non believer not try to figure out
where their hate comes from for someone that is trying share
the love of Christ with them? Watch for the cynical remarks
these comments will spark to illuminate and illustrate what I
just said.

The clash has been going on for a very long time.
The verse below explains it well to those with any
spiritual insite.

Ephesians 6:12 (Amplified Bible)
For we are not wresting with flesh and blood
[contending only with physical opponents], but
against the despotisms, against the powers,
against [the master spirits who are] the world
rulers of this present darkness, against the spirit
forces of wickedness in the heavenly (supernatural)
sphere.

It is going to get a lot bigger before He returns and
then God will end the battle when Jesus returns.
Wonderful old news, below, for some. Terrible news for
others.

Philippians 2
9 Therefore [because He stooped so low] God has highly
exalted Him (Jesus) and has freely bestowed on Him the
name that is above every name,
10 That in (at) the name of Jesus every knee should (must)
bow, in heaven and on earth and under the earth,
11 And every tongue [frankly and openly] confess and
acknowledge that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God
the Father.

Zgreat, I think it goes somewhat deeper than that. At times Christians have served their cause poorly. Standing outside an abortion clinic terrifying women or far worse, murdering a doctor or bombing the clinic, has set Pro Life agendas back 50 years. There is no way that 99% of Christians condone that, but we all got painted by the fanatical ultra right wing religious nut brush.

And some Christians do not realize how patronizing, condescending, and self righteous they sound when they witness. I've been told by athiests that I was stupid, ignorant, and words improper for a spiritual forum, but only other Christians have ever told me I was going to hell.
No wonder non-believers resent them. I resent that kind of stuff.

Then there is the ongoing struggle re government policy, education, etc. I think Christians should and must protest policies that are targeted at tearing down the faith and values of their children. At the same time, Christians sometimes go overboard such as the very few who demand creationism instead of evolution being taught or those who have presumed to have books banned from school libaries. Stuff like that makes us all look bad.

And why are athiests so interested in the subject of Christianity? Good question. And I wonder why Christians almost never have a similar fascination with athiesm?

So in other words, God had his own son tortured and killed so that sinners that offend God so much will not go to hell so long as they believe that stuff?

BINGO! (Well you are so close. Next thing is why.)

Good points that I certainly agree with. One of the problems we
have with witnessing is that the people we are witnessing to have
known to many "Christians". I can understand they have been
turned off by many. I may be gullty of that myself. I probably have
at one time or the other. We do have a lot of confused Christians
running around that even scare me. They are usually nominal
Christians who think they are Christians, because they belong to
some church. Have never had a born again experience and only
know about God, but do not know Him personally. They think hanging
around a church makes them a Christian. That is not so anymore
than hanging around an airport makes you an airplane. Unfortunately,
we even have some pastors in pulpits that are not born again. It is
strickly an occupation to them. Some people even think they are
Christians and saved, because they believe in God. Well, the old
devil himself believes in God and the Bible is clear about his future
and it is not pretty.

Even the atheist is looking for something to worship. We are all born
with that inate desire whether we recognize it or admit to it or not. We
all are going to believe in something. The Holy Spirit is pulling on
everybody. For a season anyway. Even and prephaps expecially the
atheist. We as Christians should understand that and that is probably
why we are not so facinated by atheist. We expect them even. We are
told there would be those blind to the Truth. That Satan would decieve
them and see to it they were blinded. That the road to salvation would
be narrow and the road to destruction wide. Atheism is no mystery to
us. It just grieves us to see it.

Foxfyre,
I was raised as a Christian, but it just didn't stick. I guess I asked too many questions, like Little Bessie. From my earliest childhood memories, going to church was always a chore that I would avoid if possible.

Z,
Help me out with this satan character. Where did he come from? Is he a coequal and opposite to God or was he part of Gods' creation?

I can identify with that. I had a drug problem
when I was a small child. I was "drug" to church
every Wednesday night and Sunday. I thank God
for it though. I to fell away into the ways of the
world, but I eventually returned licking my wounds.
The Bible says to "Bring up a child in the way he
should go and he will not depart from it." I would
add, "Not for long anyway". Most do return to their
roots whatever their roots may be.

The little Bessie story is cute, but quite unscriptual.
God does not bring calamity into peoples lives. He
does allow it to happen sometimes for many reasons.
Some we know; some we don't. God gets more blame for
what Satan does and Satan gets a lot of credit for
what God does. There was and still is a lot of crazy
teaching in the church that God brings bad things on
us to teach us something. Totally not Bible.

John 10:10 (Amplified Bible)
The thief [satan] comes only in order
to steal kill and destroy. I [Jesus] came
that they may have and enjoy life, and
have it in abundance (to the full, till it
overflows).

James 1:13 (Amplified Bible)
Let no one say when he is tempted,
I am tempted from God; for God is
incapable of being tempted by [what is]
evil and He Himself tempts no one.

I hated church as a kid because I probably would have been diagnosed as ADD though in those days there was no diagnosis or treatment for it. Neverthless I couldn't be quiet or sit still in church and the preacher preached for sooooooooooo long and we had fried chicken for Sunday dinner, my favorite. And every Sunday I would have to cut a willow switch and take a licking due to my unacceptable behavior. I got very good at judging just the right willow switch to cut that would hurt the least during the very mild switching process.

Maybe that prompted my athiest period some years ago. Who knows.

It's interesting hearing everybody's mini story though.

I am going to try to give you a short version as I am about
to go to sleep at the keyboard. Please ask me to about
anything you may have further questions on. I don't
say things I can't back up scriptually. Here we
go. I am not going to give chapter and verse on all this, but
will be glad to later, at your request.

Satan was, in the beginning, the archangle that
was the head angle that watched over the throne of
God. He was the minister of music of heaven also.
That is one reason he is using music so skillfully
here on earth to deceive especially young people.
He is a master at it. Satan is the only creation of
God that God said "was perfect". He was beautiful
and something to behold. Then there was iniquity
found in him. He started thinking he was as great
as God. He got one third of the other angles in
Heaven with him and God cast them all out of
Heaven to the earth. This was before man (Adam)
was created. God let satan run loose on the earth,
but the other angles are chained in a bottomless
pit at this time. Man could not survive if they were
all running loose on the earth. Satan does have
helpers called demon spirits. These are not fallen
angles. We are not sure where they came from,
but one, very strong speculation, is that there was something
on this earth before Adam. Then there was a flood that
killed everything on earth. Demom spirits could have
come from these beings. This is before the Noah flood.
Scientist know this flood happened before the Noah flood.
We don't exactly know if these were creatures that
Satan had created. We do know demons hate water to
this day. "They go and seek dry places" is one thing
said of them in the New Testament and there are other
things we know that demonstrates they hate water.
I'm not talking about Holy water either. Plain water.
We know there was something here before
Adam, because God told Adam and Eve to replenish
the earth. Something had been destroyed before they
came on earth.

Satan is loose on the earth today. Against popular
misbelief, Satan is not in hell, has never been in hell
yet, but will be put there. Where is his home on this
earth. On the "Dome of the Rock" in Israel. What better
place to mock God that to sit on His temple mount.
What is the only building on the temple mount now.
You guessed it. A Muslem Masque. I'll let you draw
your own conclusion from that. One of the most
demonic places on earth is Jerusalem.

The Christian has all power over Satan and his demons
by using the name of Jesus. Jesus has given the Christian
all his authority under His name. Many Christians do
not know this or how to use it. Satan is alive and well
in the church and has managed to keep many ignorant and
weak for the most part. Satan and Jesus/God/Holy Spirit are
alike in one way. There is not much they can do on this earth,
if anything, without finding some person to do it through.
Satan is the god (little "g") of this present world for a
while. Since Adam gave him his lease on it. God had
given Adam dominion over the earth in the Garden, but
Adam turned it over to satan. That is about to be corrected
shortly. Why God allowed this is another study.

This is real sketchy and full of gaps, so I can understand
you may find some of it ........well, questionable to say the
least. But, I can assure you that it will make more sense
when you see the whole picture. What an awsome picture
it is to! Brings it all together. Together enough anyway.

I hope this helps some. You are invited to question and
ask me about any part . I don't have all the answers, but
I can explain some things to help you draw your own.
Thanks for asking me the question. I love to try to help.

Z

I know the question wasn't directed at me, but Z's version of Satan is the original, literal interpretation held by many Christian groups and is well explained.

There are many other schools of thought among Christian groups including those who do not believe that Satan is an entity at all but represents all the wrong choices made by humankind.

Most Christians I think believe that the Biblical version is, as are many Old Testament stories, an allegory or myth to explain a universal truth; i.e. a very real existence of a source of evil in the universe that is called Satan aka several other names. A modern allegory of the phenomenon would be the concept of the dark side of 'the Force' in Star Wars.

I think all Christians have experienced God and thus do believe in the supernatural and most probably do believe in a Satan, but there are too many interpretations of what form he/it takes to say definitively what Christians believe about Satan.

But the real conflict is at the core of human phychology. It is between the heart and the head. Do you trust your feelings, or your reasoning? Religion and science are just expressions of these fundamental choices.

And conflict only arises when you try to measure one world from the vantage point of the other.

But neither I nor the scientific types I know have any problem reconciling Christianity and science; in fact, most can explain how they are mutually supportive of each other. Being a Christian does not necessarily require feelings of any kind though it usually does and it certainly does not require one to turn off their intellect. And a scientist is not required to compromise his/her understanding of science in order to be a Christian.

z's quote, "No Christian with any Biblical sense trys to convert anybody, because they can't." Now, that's what I call a falsity. We used to be buddhist until a christian lady converted our mother. She in turn converted her children (us) into christianity. I'm the only one that is a atheist today. All my siblings children are also christians. No influence at work there. None.

In my belief, influence and conversion are two separate things. I might tell you about what I believe or invite you to attend a church function where you would be exposed to a different way of thinking about something. That would be influence. But I do not have the power and would not presume to attempt to require you to believe anything. In my belief, if you were to be 'converted' to Christianity, it would be a result of you and God meeting, not a result of anything I said or did.

this day is filled with mature mutually respectable dialog

Shut up, you moron! (Is that better? )

Thanks for your input. I meant apologize for jumping in and
answering a question that mesquite had directed to you
before you had a chance to. It wasn't intentional. I was
tired and didn't pay attention to whom it was directed.

You may jump in and give your input on any question directed
to me at anytime. I appreciate your thoughts on the post
quoted in portion above and the others. It is hard to reduce
spiritual revelation to carnal understanding. Allegory has a place
in helping explain, as you said, "a universal truth".

And thanks for helping cirerone with what I said about a
Christian not being able to convert anybody. Only the
Holy Spirit working through the Christian can do that.

Oh gosh Z, don't apologize. I loved what you said. Anyhow on a busy board it's inevitable we'll get stuff tangled up and out of sequence now and then and who cares.