"STAND YOUR GROUND"--IS IT A GOOD LAW??

@farmerman,

"was carrying ingredients to brew even more dissociative hallucinogens..."

for oralboy this is much like carrying duct tape and a roll of wire is carrying two of the major ingredients for a bomb.

elf defense is clearly defined in Santa's handbook, btw...

1 Reply

@oralloy,

Quote:

Pretty much every other state in the union would also have found Mr. Zimmerman not guilty by way of self defense.

Perhaps you should examine the other states' laws before you boast.

1 Reply

@farmerman,

farmerman wrote:

oralloy wrote:
That "unarmed kid" was possibly high on dissociative hallucinogens (probably the most messed up drugs ever to hit the streets), was carrying ingredients to brew even more dissociative hallucinogens, was casing houses to break into later, and was in the process of violently assaulting Mr. Zimmerman when he was shot.

could you post the evidence on that silly statement?

How is a straightforward recital of facts silly?

In any case, one of the drugs on the street these days is called "Lean" or "Drank". It involves taking Codeine cough syrup and mixing it with a light drink (originally Sprite), then adding candy (originally Jolly Ranchers) to make it taste good.

One variant of this recipe replaces the Sprite with AriZona Watermelon Flavored Fruit Juice, and replaces the Jolly Ranchers with Skittles.

AriZona Watermelon Flavored Fruit Juice and Skittles just happened to be what Trayvon was carrying at the time he assaulted Mr. Zimmerman.

Another variant of the recipe replaces the Codeine cough syrup with cough syrup containing Dextromethorphan.

Codeine is a typical narcotic. Something that can certainly fuel violence if an addict needs to get his fix, but relatively mainstream as far as drugs go.

Dextromethorphan, on the other hand, is a dissociative hallucinogen quite similar to PCP/Angel Dust. In fact one of Dextromethorphan's street names is "Poor Man's PCP".

Trayvon made it quite clear in his online postings that he was not only into this Lean/Drank stuff, but also that he was trying to get ever-higher doses of Dextromethorphan:

Quote:

1 Reply

@farmerman,

farmerman wrote:

Skittles are not, as far as I know, a hallucinogen.

Dissociative hallucinogen. A mere hallucinogen will have someone seeing neon colored penguins or something.

Dissociatives turn people into raging psychopaths with incredible strength and no ability to feel pain.

farmerman wrote:

My theory is that Martin, walking home, sensed that he was being stalked by this weirdo. He gets ff the trail a bit and is able to confront Zimmerman when words fly in anger and MArtin jumps the "Lone Ranger' and, for his trouble , gets blown away by this sociopath.

Even if your theory were true, that would not justify calling Mr. Zimmerman a sociopath. All he would be doing is trying to keep tabs on someone he suspected was a burglar, so he could point him out to the police when they arrived.

However, your theory is significantly at odds with reality, as Mr. Zimmerman stopped following Trayvon when the dispatcher told him they didn't need him to do that.

farmerman wrote:

That's more like the real story which th gun nuts just want to continue spinning into some justified homicide rant.

As already noted, your theory varies significantly from reality.

And when you are defending yourself from an aggressor, you are most definitely justified in shooting them.

farmerman wrote:

The jury could only deal with the evidence in this case (None of which included Martin being a "dealer" or concoctor of meth).

No, not Meth. Meth is relatively sane compared to the "Poor Man's PCP" that Trayvon was brewing for himself.

farmerman wrote:

The simple fact was that an unarmed person was blown away by a sociopath.

That is not even remotely factual.

Trying to save his neighbors from being massacred by a drug addled thug is about the exact opposite of what a sociopath is.

Mr. Zimmerman is a hero. Had Trayvon gotten all hopped up on Angel Dust and then broken into a house that happened to have a family at home at the time, the entire family probably would have been slaughtered.

farmerman wrote:

Id like to see this same case in Pa where our laws of elf defense are differently defined. (" mortal danger" must show evidence of some weapon of equivalent capability), and concealed weapons can only be under 3 feet in length

I think it's unlikely that Pennsylvania prevents people from defending themselves when stronger people attempt to beat them to death.

farmerman wrote:

If I lived in Fla, Id fear these gun toting vigilantes more than life criminals and cops.

Yes, but your views on civilian gun ownership are pretty whacky.

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@Rockhead,

Rockhead wrote:

"was carrying ingredients to brew even more dissociative hallucinogens..."

for oralboy this is much like carrying duct tape and a roll of wire is carrying two of the major ingredients for a bomb.

I see you're still using name-calling instead of facts and logic.

There is a bit of a difference between "a known bombmaker carrying duct tape and a roll of wire" and "someone who is not associated with bombs in any way, carrying the same materials".

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@farmerman,

farmerman wrote:

oralloy wrote:
Pretty much every other state in the union would also have found Mr. Zimmerman not guilty by way of self defense.

Perhaps you should examine the other states' laws before you boast.

Unnecessary. The concept of self-defense is pretty much universal.

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@oralloy,

Quote:

How is a straightforward recital of facts silly?

Ill stipulate to the urban pharmacopeia. That was NOT even remotely the point. YOU ACCUSED Martin of being high on drugs. I asked for the evidence that skittles are such a drug.

Did anyone even remotely consider doing the blood chemistry on Martin as part of a secured autopsy? The results, if you are even close, would be of considerable value.(Unless of course, the "facts in evidence" are all in your mind)

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@farmerman,

All the bullshit you spout could have easily been determined by autopsy, did no one want to know the results? Or is this all kjust barroom fiction?

(Im guessing that youre in a barroom now)

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@farmerman,

or he's not old enough to drink...

1 Reply

@farmerman,

farmerman wrote:

YOU ACCUSED Martin of being high on drugs.

Nonsense. I accused him of planning to get high on very dangerous drugs and then go break into other people's houses.

I only said he was possibly high when he assaulted Mr. Zimmerman.

farmerman wrote:

I asked for the evidence that skittles are such a drug.

And I provided evidence that Trayvon was going to brew those Skittles into a concoction of "Poor Man's PCP".

farmerman wrote:

Did anyone even remotely consider doing the blood chemistry on Martin as part of a secured autopsy?

Yes, but I haven't yet heard whether he was tested for Dextromethorphan.

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@farmerman,

farmerman wrote:

All the bullshit you spout

Can you show even one fact that I had wrong?

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@Rockhead,

Rockhead wrote:

or he's not old enough to drink...

If you are not willing to participate at a suitably intelligent level, perhaps you should just sit back and listen.

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It was a good topic while it lasted.

1 Reply

@edgarblythe,

yup.

this is why we can't have nice things, ed...

1 Reply

@Rockhead,

Im not gonna attempt to enter the Oralloy world, its logic-free to the inquisitive mind.
He didt say that Martin was "high". he said that he was preparing to get high on skittles and Soda without the active ingrdients to make P2P.

A tox screen in an autopsy does a series of GCMS tests that show the presence of "groups" of chemicals including dex and amphetamine precursors. The machine does most of it and the computer the rest. The machines are calibrated on a 5 point quantitation scale for about 160 different organics and ions. They would have found it if it were there(Unless they fucked up the chemistry too)

1 Reply

@farmerman,

farmerman wrote:

Im not gonna attempt to enter the Oralloy world, its logic-free to the inquisitive mind.

When you are confronted by facts, it is rather poor form for you to retreat to the use of ad hominem lies.

farmerman wrote:

He didt say that Martin was "high". he said that he was preparing to get high on skittles and Soda without the active ingrdients to make P2P.

No, I said he was going to get high on "Poor Man's PCP", using "Poor Man's PCP".

farmerman wrote:

A tox screen in an autopsy does a series of GCMS tests that show the presence of "groups" of chemicals including dex and amphetamine precursors. The machine does most of it and the computer the rest. The machines are calibrated on a 5 point quantitation scale for about 160 different organics and ions. They would have found it if it were there(Unless they fucked up the chemistry too)

Precursors?? He was not brewing Dextromethorphan. He was using Dextromethorphan that was already made.

In any case, I was asking for a credible source on the matter, not for a source that resorts to ad hominem lies whenever it is confronted by actual facts.

1 Reply

The Florida SYG law says that a person is justified in the use of deadly force and does not have a duty to retreat if he reasonably believes that such force is necessary to prevent imminent death or great bodily harm to himself, or another, or to prevent the imminent commission of a forcible felony.

Note the use of the phrase "reasonably believes."

The law seems perfectly reasonable to me.

2 Replies

@Brandon9000,

That word "reasonably" is extremely malleable. Somebody looking to shoot can always think up a good excuse to pull the trigger.

1 Reply

@edgarblythe,

edgarblythe wrote:

That word "reasonably" is extremely malleable. Somebody looking to shoot can always think up a good excuse to pull the trigger.

I guess I could make up a ridiculous reason to knock off a jewelry store and hope that I wouldn't be convicted, but it doesn't sound likely to work. Typically, making up a ridiculous reason to kill someone or to commit any crime doesn't help the perpetrator. The district attorney's office first has to agree that the killing was justifiable and not bring charges. This law merely allows people to defend themselves or others when they actually need to, and that's the way it's phrased. What's the alternative - people in grave danger have to fear the consequences of trying to preserve their lives?

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@Brandon9000,

I can kill you if I think you might commit a felony, and you are OK with that??!! Damn, death row appeals take at least a decade, this is sure faster!

2 Replies

"STAND YOUR GROUND"--IS IT A GOOD LAW??

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