27
   

"STAND YOUR GROUND"--IS IT A GOOD LAW??

 
 
JTT
 
  -1  
Fri 19 Jul, 2013 06:34 pm
@glitterbag,
Peeking again, eh, notsoglitteringbag?
0 Replies
 
farmerman
 
  3  
Fri 19 Jul, 2013 07:05 pm
@glitterbag,
YEP, The special case of the Fla version of the law cannot be overstated. IN FLAyou can feel threatened by someone carrying a box of Skittles and have a right to shoot them to death. HAd this occurred in PA, Zimmerperson would be in Graterford doing 30 to life for killing someone who was unarmed.

People of small stature, are often fond of overcompensating with such things as gun happiness.
The special way the law is written in Fla is actually un-American and unconstitutional.
farmerman
 
  2  
Fri 19 Jul, 2013 07:07 pm
@Ragman,
Quote:

Categorically, I'm against SYG laws. I need to think some more about the states that do allow someone to shoot in self-defense if someone is put in a life-and-death situation while the other person is equally armed
Pa's law is written to make sure you understand that your assailant must also be armed.Otherwise its murder or at least manslaughter.

A weapon to protect the house , in the house, OK. Chasing the intruder down the street , shooting him , and then (As was recommended) dragging him back into the house, not so much.
0 Replies
 
glitterbag
 
  2  
Fri 19 Jul, 2013 07:19 pm
@farmerman,
Basically, it allows stupid people to fire shots at everything that startles them. Is this a great country or what?
0 Replies
 
JTT
 
  -2  
Fri 19 Jul, 2013 07:23 pm
@farmerman,
Quote:
People of small stature, are often fond of overcompensating with such things as gun happiness.


Speaking of people of small stature: "Ive had to scare bears but a few times (I NEVER go into big back country like in Argentina or Canadia by myself ... NEVER)"

Quote:
The special way the law is written in Fla is actually un-American and unconstitutional.


But, things like this, below, are fine and dandy all- American stuff, completely constee2shunal.

Quote:
A "killing field" in the Americas:
US policy in Guatemala



The reality of Guatemala

Guatemala, with 10 million people, is the most populous country in Central America. It is run by an oligarchy of wealthy landowners and big business interests that reap the country's agricultural and commercial rewards at the expense of the rest of the population. The country has been headed by military dictators and figurehead-presidents. Ultimate control belongs to the Army.

Guatemala is a country without social or economic justice, especially for the 6 million indigenous Mayan Indians who make up the majority of the population. There is a marked disparity in income distribution, and poverty is pervasive. On coffee plantations, peasants, descendants of the ancient Maya, live in concentration camp-like conditions, as de facto slaves. 40% of the indigenous people have no access to health care, and 60% have no access to safe drinking water. Education in rural areas is non-existent, with the result that 50% of the people are illiterate. Half of the country's children suffer from malnutrition. Every day in Guatemala, a country in which everything grows, people go hungry.

The real power in Guatemala is in the hands of the Army, and that power has been used to violently control the people, resulting in the worst human rights record in the hemisphere. During more than 30 years of civil war, over 150,000 Guatemalans have been killed or disappeared, tens-of-thousands have been forced to flee to Mexico, 1 million have been displaced inside the country, and more than 440 Indian villages have been destroyed. 75,000 widows and 250,000 orphans have been produced out of the carnage. And, for more than four decades, the United States government has consistently supported the Guatemalan Army and the ruling class in their policies of repression.

http://www.thirdworldtraveler.com/US_ThirdWorld/US_Guat.html
0 Replies
 
Ragman
 
  1  
Fri 19 Jul, 2013 08:30 pm
@Ragman,
I don't own a gun. The last time I fired a gun was in the USAF as an enlisted man during basic training as it was required. After that, only once again when I was with a friend doing target practice. I have nothing against guns. I do have a concern about some of the nutjobs who own guns, though.

At age 62, I never seem to be in harm's way and luckily have not been approached where I had to defend myself. Not saying that it won't ever happen at some point as you never know. FWIW, I rarely am out after midnight or hanging out at downtown bars and do not live or visit in high risk neighborhoods. No guarantees I would ever want a gun but it's worked for me so far NOT to have a gun.
0 Replies
 
DoctorGotz
 
  1  
Fri 19 Jul, 2013 10:03 pm
@farmerman,
If you buy the intent of the law, then the increased number of "homicides" may only mean that more people can and have now killed their attackers rather than running from them or submitting.

It's tough, though, to imagine that someone who is being attacked actually thinks about the legality of their response, but I don't know; I've never been attacked.

I also don't know that killing someone who wants to hurt me or my family means I'm not civilized.

My bet is that the number of people killed who didn't deserve a violent end is very small. It seems to me that it comes down to whether you think preventing the rare situation where an innocent person is killed through misguided "self-defense": is more important than preventing the numerous ones where a criminal intentionally hurts or kills innocent persons.

Not an easy conclusion to reach.
Rockhead
 
  1  
Fri 19 Jul, 2013 10:45 pm
@DoctorGotz,
it kinda comes down to one's faith in humanity.

I have very little left...
DoctorGotz
 
  1  
Fri 19 Jul, 2013 10:50 pm
@Rockhead,
Understandable, but these isolated incidents are not indicative of the true nature of humanity.

There are billions of humans living good lives. The number of people who damage your faith are a tiny percentage of the whole.

0 Replies
 
Miller
 
  -2  
Fri 19 Jul, 2013 11:06 pm
@maxdancona,
maxdancona wrote:

... unless we start arming 17 year old Black kids.


Dah! Did you say "start"? Looks like most of the black kids on the streets of Chicago already have guns. I thought the goal of the " reformers" and "do gooders" was to remove all the gang-owned guns.

How many guns did former Patriots football player, Hernandez have hidden in one of his homes? Though Hispanic, clearly Hernandez planned to defend himself, should he be attacked.
Rockhead
 
  2  
Fri 19 Jul, 2013 11:11 pm
@Miller,
you aren't comparing Hernandez the multi-millionaire with Chicago street kids are you?

because that would be silly and kinda racist...

and didn't you move away from scary old Chicago years ago?
0 Replies
 
Ceili
 
  1  
Fri 19 Jul, 2013 11:14 pm
There is a reason for the judicial system.
In a homicide case, you can choose either a judge or jury.
YOU shouldn't get to be the judge, jury and executioner.
0 Replies
 
panzade
 
  3  
Fri 19 Jul, 2013 11:27 pm
I heard an interview on NPR with one of the authors of Florida's SYG law and he said, and this is no lie, that they wrote the law so tourists would feel more comfortable and safe touring the attractions.
Ceili
 
  1  
Fri 19 Jul, 2013 11:29 pm
@panzade,
Tourists are allowed to carry guns? Go on...
Rockhead
 
  1  
Fri 19 Jul, 2013 11:30 pm
@Ceili,
no, silly...

tourists are scared of black kids.
0 Replies
 
Miller
 
  -1  
Fri 19 Jul, 2013 11:32 pm
@Ceili,
You can carry a gun, if you have a gun permit.

Why shouldn't tourists or anyone else not carry a gun, if they have a permit for it?
0 Replies
 
panzade
 
  2  
Fri 19 Jul, 2013 11:32 pm
@Ceili,
It's mandatory. When you cross the Georgia border the State Patrol outfits your whole family with weapons and ammunition
0 Replies
 
Miller
 
  -1  
Fri 19 Jul, 2013 11:35 pm
@panzade,
panzade wrote:

... they wrote the law so tourists would feel more comfortable and safe touring the attractions.


Smart idea relative to the tourists. Seems tourism is down in Chicago because too many folks are afraid of the gun-mediated violence in the City and tourists are afraid of being shot to death.
panzade
 
  2  
Sat 20 Jul, 2013 12:05 am
@Miller,
Quote:
Seems tourism is down in Chicago because too many folks are afraid of the gun-mediated violence in the City and tourists are afraid of being shot to death.


So what you're suggesting is that Florida should repeal the SYG law and make it harder to obtain weapons so tourists would feel safer in comparison to Chicago. That makes sense!
0 Replies
 
farmerman
 
  3  
Sat 20 Jul, 2013 04:54 am
@DoctorGotz,
Weve begun to retread rapraps theory that to solve gun crimes we need more guns.
The whole law gets to be 1984ish. Where more gun deaths is more civilized than less
Merely giving guns to people to solve all their problems and quell their animal fears does not, on the face of it appear very civilized to me. MAbe Im too liberal minded where I don't see everything in Spenserian terms. FAng and claw, Fang and Claw.

The only problem is that deaths are non returnable/
 

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