the so-called Whitehall

@contrex,

Yes. I went out to buy some spinach for her indoors' sandwiches, and I concluded it must be the same as, or very similar to, our antique phrase "At the sign of".

At the sign of the crossed keys
at the sign of the cobbler
at the sign of the double eagle
at the sign of the Turk's head.

Probably dating back to the time when most people could not read.

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@contrex,

Yes, might well be.

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Thank you~

Assume that a hospital name doesn't take THE, with the adjective/premodifier 'decades-old', is THE obligatory?

I'm not sure, because a long time ago JTT said if the quality given by the adjective is typical of the thing, like 'mute e' in English phonetics, THE is not used. By the same token, if a city is typical of being busy, it should be, busy New York, busy London, busy Beijing, etc. Am I correct? But Contrex seems to be saying we need THE DECADES OLD St Thomas’s Hospital (my example, where St Thomas’s Hospital doesn't take THE)

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@WBYeats,

"Decades-old St Thomas' Hospital is an awkward construct of the kind you might see in a rather inept travelogue.
Best to keep your phrases simple.
But in that case, it works both with and without the "the".

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@McTag,

Thank you, Mctag.

Is 'decades-old + name+ HOSPITAL' generally awkward or only this specific example 'Decades-old St Thomas' Hospital' awkward? I somehow have the feeling that English-speaking people don't like anything before 'St.': offhand I can't think of a name of airport, church or school starting with 'St.' but taking THE.

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Quote:

...buildings that have fallen into disrepair, like the decades-old St. Peter Claver Primary School in Punta Gord

Quote:

In the aftermath of a fire that ravaged the original building of the decades old St. Joseph Mercy Hospital,

Quote:

Organizers of the decades-old St. Mary's Polish Country Fair in Orchard Lake are facing a growing problem

Quote:

They have said the same about the decades-old St. Vincent de Paul soup kitchen

Quote:

A visit to Kape Kesada can be mixed with a walking tour around town where you can find the decades old St. James the Apostle Church

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@McTag,

Quote:

"Decades-old St Thomas' Hospital is an awkward construct of the kind you might see in a rather inept travelogue.
Best to keep your phrases simple.
But in that case, it works both with and without the "the".

This is the kind of tripe that you read in the worst of the style manuals. It could have been plagiarized right out of Fowler.

Contrex provided an example [ I see he edited/he has edited to provide a number of examples] but he was too chickenshit to come right out and say it. It's not at all "an awkward construct". It's very natural English.

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Something I am surprised no-one has picked up on is that it is not terribly remarkable if a building is decades old, so why bother mentioning it? A decades-old pothole in a road or a decades-old murder case maybe.

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@contrex,

Quote:

Something I am surprised no-one has picked up on is that it is not terribly remarkable if a building is decades old, so why bother mentioning it?

To distinguish it from a century old building or a centuries old building

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@JTT,

To distinguish it from a century old building or a centuries old building

Do the red words necessarily mean one century and an uncertain number of centuries?

=============================

-The Urban Renewal Authority has unveiled its plan to redesign the Central Market Building. The so-called 'Central Oasis' is set to be finished by 2020.

I got this from the news, so it's really new to me and I can't provide a context. If 'Central Oasis' is the name of a project, not taking THE itself, must THE be omitted before SO-CALLED?

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@WBYeats,

Quote:

Do the red words necessarily mean one century and an uncertain number of centuries?

'a century' = one century

'centuries old' = more than one but indeterminate, but CONTEXT will clue folks in.

=============================

Quote:

-The Urban Renewal Authority has unveiled its plan to redesign the Central Market Building. The so-called 'Central Oasis' is set to be finished by 2020.

I got this from the news, so it's really new to me and I can't provide a context. If 'Central Oasis' is the name of a project, not taking THE itself, must THE be omitted before SO-CALLED?

'Central Oasis' isn't the name of the project. That's what 'so-called' tells us. 'the' is required.

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@JTT,

Quote:

This is the kind of tripe that you read in the worst of the style manuals.

Incorrect and rather silly (and rude, as usual). If you want to point out the fact that the hospital is decades old, there are surely many better ways of doing that.

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@McTag,

Quote:

Incorrect and rather silly (and rude, as usual). If you want to point out the fact that the hospital is decades old, there are surely many better ways of doing that.

Not incorrect or silly, McTag.

This, below, was both incorrect and silly.

Quote:

"Decades-old St Thomas' Hospital is an awkward construct of the kind you might see in a rather inept travelogue.
Best to keep your phrases simple.
But in that case, it works both with and without the "the".

It is the typical silly advice found in a Fowler type style manual that is of no use to anyone. It doesn't instruct. It is simply a pedantic repeat of something you've read or heard. Come on, be honest, where did you filch it from?

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@JTT,

I see you've repeated your silly advice. Are you running out of ideas?

Consider "Three-times-winner of the centuries-old competition, Lance Armstrong said of this "I wouldn't take any advice from self-regarding JTT. His head is so far up his own arse he can't see anything, far less think straight."

This device is journalese at best, and should be only sparingly used. In my humble opinion, of course.

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@McTag,

Quote:

This device is journalese at best, and should be only sparingly used. In my humble opinion, of course.

It's not a device. That, in itself, is trite and a cliche. Of course it's your "humble opinion" and nothing else.

But that doesn't make it sound advice. In fact, as I've mentioned, and you've ignored, what could anyone take away from your "humble opinion"?

What would you offer instead of "Three-times-winner of the centuries-old competition, Lance Armstrong"?

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@JTT,

It's a journalistic device to pack a lot of information into a short sentence, or a headline. It is awkward and clunky, and unlovely. But its use is a matter of taste, of course. Go ahead and use it, if you don't care much about how your stuff looks.

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@McTag,

Quote:

It's a journalistic device to pack a lot of information into a short sentence, or a headline.

Fits perfectly with McTag advice to be terse and use short phrases.

Quote:

It is awkward and clunky, and unlovely.

McTag opinion that reveals much.

Quote:

But its use is a matter of taste, of course.

Of course.

Quote:

Go ahead and use it, if you don't care much about how your stuff looks.

McTag's typical disparaging opinion which also reveals much.

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@JTT,

Quote:

McTag advice to be terse and use short phrases.

Indeed no. My advice is not to be silly like JTT, to be brief, and as simple as appropriate. Nothing is improved by over-complication.

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@McTag,

Quote:

My advice is not to be silly like JTT, to be brief, and as simple as appropriate.

Your advice is getting sillier and sillier these days. You still haven't told us where you cribbed that nonsensical style manual crap from.

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@JTT,

Quote:

You still haven't told us where

Nothing to tell, dear boy, I write as ever from the heart. I only consult a book where necessary. It seldom is.

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the so-called Whitehall

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