Snowdon is a dummy

@Walter Hinteler,

Walter Hinteler wrote:

Well, to pose a counterquestion: the USA and the world wouldn't react significant if the Russian drone killed a Russian citizen in Washington/DC, who got asylum in USA?

The US would react. I wouldn't anticipate much reaction from the rest of the world.

1 Reply

@oralloy,

Of course Russia would react as well in the 'Snowden-by-US-drone-killed-case'.

But I doubt, Russia has something similar to the DARPA FALCON Project.
I could imagine, though that the USA will use it for the purpose you want.

1 Reply

@Walter Hinteler,

One in three Germans have said their trust in the government in shaken due to the allegations that German intelligence helped the NSA and Merkel isn't offering offer an explanation.

This leads additionally to rumours that the NSA is behind the recent cyber attack on the German Bundestag (parliament) and government (the attack, as it has been reported today, involved cabinet departments as well, not 'only' lawmakers and parliamentary parties).

0 Replies

In an exclusive interview in Moscow, Snowden cautions that more needs to be done to curb NSA surveillance two years after his disclosures

Edward Snowden: NSA reform in the US is only the beginning

0 Replies

Btw: "What the German government is staging there is more dangerous than the Snowden revelations." James Clapper, warning in a secret directive, as reported by various media.

Report @ DW

1 Reply

@Walter Hinteler,

The German government declined to comment on a report that U.S. intelligence agencies were reviewing their cooperation with German counterparts and had dropped joint projects due to concerns secret information was being leaked by lawmakers.

A spokesman for the U.S. embassy in Berlin said it does not comment on intelligence matters.

Source: reuters

0 Replies

Kuddoes to Rand Paul, i guess... :-| But first and foremost, to Snowden, The Guardian and others who helped Snowden.

Long way to go though.

Quote:

NSA programme: Bush-era powers expire as US prepares to roll back surveillance

Sweeping intelligence capabilities exposed by Edward Snowden shut down as hawks concede defeat on first major surveillance reform in a generation

‘Tonight begins the process of ending bulk collection,’ said Senator Rand Paul, who forced a shutdown of surveillance authorities covered by the Bush-era Patriot Act.

The Guardian - Monday 1 June 2015

Sweeping US surveillance powers, enjoyed by the National Security Agency since the aftermath of the 2001 terrorist attacks, shut down at midnight after a dramatic Senate showdown in which even the NSA’s biggest supporters conceded that substantial reforms were inevitable.

Almost two years after the whistleblower Edward Snowden revealed to the Guardian that the Patriot Act was secretly being used to justify the collection of phone records from millions of Americans, critics of bulk surveillance went further than expected and forced the end of a range of other legal authorities covered by the Bush-era Patriot Act as well.

The expired provisions, subject to a “sunset” clause from the beginning of June onwards, are likely to be replaced later this week with new legislation – the USA Freedom Act – that permanently bans the NSA from collecting telephone records in bulk and introduces new transparency rules for other surveillance activities. The USA Freedom Act, once passed, will be the first rollback of NSA surveillance since the seminal 1978 Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act.

But until then, in addition to the expiration of the NSA’s phone records collection, the FBI is prevented from using powers granted under the Patriot Act, including the pursuit of so-called “business records” relating to internet use, hotel and rental car records and credit card statements.

Both developments represent a remarkable capitulation for the Republican Senate majority leader, Mitch McConnell, who had initially sought to simply extend the Patriot Act provisions, despite overwhelming support in the House of Representatives for the USA Freedom Act.

1 Reply

@Olivier5,

Olivier5 wrote:

Kuddoes to Rand Paul, i guess... :-|

As if it were a good thing that this clown is helping al-Qa'ida kill innocent people?

What if the terrorists are planning another attack on France, and the NSA was about to discover it, but now they will miss discovering it?

Olivier5 wrote:

But first and foremost, to Snowden, The Guardian and others who helped Snowden.

As if it were a good thing that this criminal broke the law to help al-Qa'ida kill innocent people?

1 Reply

@oralloy,

Of course they're planning more attacks. No "what if" about it. The problem is this program doesn't do anything to prevent it, and the costs, both financial and to our loss of privacy, are substantial.

Too Many Haystacks

1 Reply

@JPB,

JPB wrote:

The problem is this program doesn't do anything to prevent it,

Analyzing patterns of phone calls can potentially uncover terrorist cells by revealing networks of terrorists calling each other.

This ability was damaged by having Snowden reveal to the terrorists exactly what we are doing, but the blame for that should fall on Snowden, not on the program that he damaged.

Such analysis can be useful even when it isn't uncovering a previously-unknown terrorist cell. For instance, it can confirm to investigators that they are on the right track about something they already know about, or let them know they are on the wrong track and are wasting their time on a certain subject.

Also, this legislative delay is damaging more than just the phone metadata program. The ability to get roving wiretaps to track known terrorists who frequently switch cell phones has been suspended, as has the program to monitor likely "lone wolf" attackers who have no connection to an actual terrorist organization.

JPB wrote:

and the costs, both financial and to our loss of privacy, are substantial.

There was no loss to our privacy. The government only conducted searches of the phone metadata after getting a warrant from a judge.

1 Reply

@oralloy,

The degree of certainty people like JPB have that these programs do nothing to prevent terrorist attacks or terrorist planning...is amazing and absurd, Oralloy. And they think nothing of citing other people who are just as amazingly and absurdly certain the programs do nothing to prevent and protect.

They may be tremendously helpful in fulfilling the protection and prevention duties assigned to the agencies who want them...and there is no way the efficacy of the programs will ever be announced.

As for the loss of privacy being substantial...that seems to be mostly fantasy on the part of people who just want to complain about these programs.

In any case, I hope the congress gets its ducks in a row and gets past this nonsense being thrown at it by Rand Paul. He is being a jerk...and should be treated by his peers as one.

We disagree on many things, Oralloy...but not on this one.

3 Replies

@Frank Apisa,

You're going all agnostic here Frank. There is no evidence that this mass surveillance does any good at all. Now you may say that there's no evidence it doesn't, but we're talking about vast sums of money that could be much better spent targeting likely suspects. The tax payer isn't getting much of a return for snooping on you regardless of how relaxed you are about it.

1 Reply

@Frank Apisa,

It's not absurd. There's good data on the lack of effectiveness of these programmes, not least from the commission appointed by the white house. Rand Paul is right on this one.

2 Replies

@izzythepush,

I am agnostic almost always, Izzy. A cross I must bear.

But the only way the agencies can show that the surveillance is effective...

...is to disclose matters and issues they will NEVER disclose.

They are between a rock and a hard place on this.

The agencies say the surveillance is important...and I think we should give them the benefit of the doubt. You obviously do not.

That is your right.

1 Reply

@Olivier5,

Olivier5 wrote:

It's not absurd. There's good data on the lack of effectiveness of these programmes, not least from the commission appointed by the white house. Rand Paul is right on this one.

I think you are confusing " a lack of evidence that they are effective"...with "evidence that they are not effective."

I think the reason for the lack of evidence that they are effective...is because the only way to provide that evidence is to compromise the programs.

You have a right to suppose that Rand Paul is "right" on this issue.

I think he is absurdly wrong...and mostly doing this for political benefit.

We simply disagree.

1 Reply

After having implemented this surveillance program in complete secrecy and circle-jerk collusion throughout all of the branches of government we're supposed to trust them with it?

Um, no.

2 Replies

@InfraBlue,

Umm...then don't.

But don't tell me that I can't.

If you want to trust Rand Paul...trust him.

I don't.

1 Reply

@Frank Apisa,

It would NOT have compromised anything to give a few examples to the comission of experts mandated by Obama to review this question. Thoses guys were experts with pretty high accreditation.

1 Reply

@Olivier5,

Olivier5 wrote:

It would NOT have compromised anything to give a few examples to the comission of experts mandated by Obama to review this question. Thoses guys were experts with pretty high accreditation.

I understand that is what you are supposing, Olivier. But I would prefer to defer to the people running the organizations charged with doing the protecting and preventing. There is not unanimity of opinion from them... but the majority of them seem to think some kind of surveillance program is desirable.

I hope things break that way...others prefer that it be almost entirely eliminated. We'll see what happens in the days ahead.

1 Reply

@Frank Apisa,

Don't be so half baked, there's plenty of evidence targeted surveillance works, national security doesn't stand in the way of that.

None that mass data trawling does, yet you expect everyone to take a leap of faith based on your gut.

The only thing that's absurd is your position.

1 Reply

Snowdon is a dummy

Related Topics

Quick Links

My Account

able2know