42
   

Snowdon is a dummy

 
 
BillRM
 
  1  
Sat 21 Feb, 2015 12:39 pm
@revelette2,
Quote:
I have been curious in how Snowden is still leaking stories. Are these stories part of the same information dump which Snowden gave to Greenwald?


Snowden is not dumping anything as he had turned over all these files to third parties reporters and those reporters are still releasing files.
revelette2
 
  1  
Sun 22 Feb, 2015 03:50 pm
@BillRM,
Which is why I asked. I was wondering the timeline of the event posted by walter, I was also wondering how or if he was still releasing his stolen information or if it was part of the information he already turned over to Greenwald and whoever. It was the words "new documents" which caught my eye.
Walter Hinteler
 
  2  
Sun 22 Feb, 2015 04:09 pm
@revelette2,
I suppose that "new documents" just means "newly released documents". (By Greenwald or whoever.)
(Though it had been reported already by Spiegel a couple of months ago - but without publishing the actual documents.)
0 Replies
 
revelette2
 
  2  
Wed 25 Feb, 2015 07:13 am
Quote:
Constitution Check: Will the government’s global wiretap program ever be subject to challenge?

Lyle Denniston, the National Constitution Center’s constitutional literacy adviser, explains why the Supreme Court turned away a challenge on Monday to government spying under the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act.

THE STATEMENT AT ISSUE:

“Disclosures over the past two years have called into question whether judicial oversight of national security surveillance is adequate to prevent abuse and preserve the constitutional balance between liberty and security….

Through this case, this court has the opportunity to provide guidance concerning the role that federal judges should play in ensuring that the government’s surveillance practices are consistent with the Constitution.”

– Excerpt from a legal document filed in the Supreme Court in the case of Daoud v. United States. On Monday, the Supreme Court refused to hear that case, after the federal government chose not to file a reply to it. It was one of the first cases in which a person accused of crime has been told by the government that he was a target of a secret intelligence monitoring and that some of the evidence would be used against him at his trial.

WE CHECKED THE CONSTITUTION, AND…

Nearly four decades ago, in 1978, there was a constitutional coincidence – two events, occurring fairly close together, that would seem entirely unconnected, but over time would become intertwined. The courts, however, have yet to figure out a way to make the two work in tandem to serve both the cause of national security and the cause of personal liberty.

In June of that year, the Supreme Court, in a routine criminal case, Franks v. Delaware, ruled that an individual accused of crime would have the right under the Fourth Amendment to challenge the legality of a police search of his belongings, if the individual could first make a fairly convincing argument that the search was not legal. A judge would look at the basis for the police search, the arguments police had made in getting a warrant, and then decide if the accused individual could go ahead with a challenge to the legality of the police action.

In October of that year, President Jimmy Carter signed into law the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act, setting up a court system in which the government could seek permission to carry out electronic eavesdropping aimed at the threatening actions of a “foreign power” or its agents. “The bill I am signing today,” the President said, “sacrifices neither the security nor our civil liberties.” The measure, he added, strikes “that difficult balance.”

One of the features of that new law was a mandate by Congress that, if government electronic intelligence-gathering uncovered evidence that would be used to prosecute an individual for a crime, that person would be told about it, and have the opportunity to challenge it. As that law has operated over the years since, it has become clear that only those facing criminal charges are likely to be told that they were monitored; anyone else whose conversations had been overheard has not been told about it, so they had no way to contend that the monitoring was illegal or unconstitutional.

Through the 37 years since then, one thing has become clear: no one has ever had the opportunity to challenge in court whether government spying under the 1978 law was actually done illegally or in violation of the Constitution. There are two reasons for that. First, no one who simply suspects they were overheard by an intelligence-gathering wiretap has been able to prove that they were, so they could not show they had been harmed and thus had no legal claim. Or so the Supreme Court said two years ago, in the case of Clapper v. Amnesty International.

Second, no one who has been told that they were overheard (because they were charged with a crime based partly on evidence from such a wiretap) has ever been given actual access to the secret papers that gave the government authority to do the wiretapping, so they had no basis to claim it was begun or carried out illegally. The government has been able routinely to block demands for such access, claiming national security reasons.

But that circumstance appeared to have changed about a year ago. A federal trial judge in Chicago, Sharon Johnson Coleman, actually ordered the federal government to share with a defense attorney who had a Top Secret clearance some of the background papers on secret intelligence surveillance.

The judge did that in the case of a 19-year-old from Hillside, Ill., Adel Daoud, who had been charged with planning to bomb a bar in the Loop section of downtown Chicago, as a terrorist act. An FBI undercover agent who learned of Daoud’s online conversations about bomb-making and “jihad” worked out the plot with him, and provided him with a fake bomb that, of course, would not detonate.

The government had notified Daoud’s lawyers that some evidence from a secret wiretap would be used at his trial. Judge Coleman rejected the government’s argument that it would endanger national security if the background papers regarding that surveillance were shared with a defense lawyer, even one with sufficient clearance to see such papers. The judge relied upon the Supreme Court’s decision in the Franks v. Delaware case, and her own authority under the 1978 intelligence surveillance law to weigh demands for access.

These developments appeared to be a near-perfect alignment of facts and legal developments to set up a clear-cut court test of the legality of the massive foreign-intelligence surveillance program that has been revealed through the disclosures of former security analyst Edward Snowden.

However, Judge Coleman’s order of disclosure was overturned by the U.S. Court of Appeals for the Seventh Circuit, finding that the trial judge had not followed the required procedures for ordering such a disclosure. Daoud’s lawyers decided to press the issue in the Supreme Court, filing a case there last December asking the court to apply the Franks v. Delaware precedent, and sort out who should get access to the background papers of spying, in a case like Daoud’s.

As matters would turn out, however, the federal government’s lawyers chose to waive their right to respond to the Daoud case. The Supreme Court had the option of calling for a government response, but it did not do so. The case came up before the Justices, then, as only a one-sided matter, and that kind of case does not get reviewed. The Daoud case was denied on Monday without an explanation and without any indication that any Justice had voted to hear it.

So, again, as in other cases that had failed to draw the Justices into an analysis of the balance of security and privacy in the global wiretapping context, challengers had to await another case with not much reason to anticipate a different outcome.


source
Olivier5
 
  2  
Sat 28 Feb, 2015 04:50 am
@revelette2,
That's dereliction of duty, if you ask me. Otherwise known as cowardice.
revelette2
 
  2  
Sat 28 Feb, 2015 07:00 am
@Olivier5,
Our Supreme Court is set up in such a way where they have the choice of what they decide to take up. I think sooner or later a case concerning the issue of the government's surveillance system will come before the court they will decide to hear.
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Sat 28 Feb, 2015 07:56 am
@revelette2,
revelette2 wrote:

Our Supreme Court is set up in such a way where they have the choice of what they decide to take up. I think sooner or later a case concerning the issue of the government's surveillance system will come before the court they will decide to hear.


Actually, often by refusing to hear a case...they have decide it. Whatever the lower court has ruled...stands.
Walter Hinteler
 
  2  
Sat 28 Feb, 2015 08:10 am
@Frank Apisa,
That is the same procedure as with our Federal Constitutional Court. (This court only deals with Constitution-related cases, but has the power to overrule decisions of all other federal courts despite not being a regular court of appeals in the German court system.

The courts of last resort - Federal Court of Justice, Federal Social Court, Federal Labour Court, Federal Finance Court, and Federal Administrative Court - are at the top of the hierarchy of courts. [The so-called Gemeinsamer Senat der Obersten Gerichtshöfe ("Joint Senate of the Supreme Courts"), is not a supreme court in itself, but an ad-hoc body that is convened only in when one supreme court intends to diverge from another supreme court's legal opinion.)
0 Replies
 
Olivier5
 
  1  
Sat 28 Feb, 2015 10:21 am
@revelette2,
I think they will stay away from it for as long as they possibly can, and probably forever. Anybody wants to bet?
revelette2
 
  1  
Sat 28 Feb, 2015 10:47 am
@Olivier5,
It's certainly possible. I only hope they stay away from the ACA, forever. I would rather they take up the surveillance issue any day of the week.
0 Replies
 
RABEL222
 
  2  
Sat 28 Feb, 2015 07:03 pm
@Olivier5,
Depends wether or not the conservatives stay in control of the court.
Olivier5
 
  1  
Sun 1 Mar, 2015 02:11 am
@RABEL222,
How so? The whole system is now conservative, including the dems.
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Sun 1 Mar, 2015 01:03 pm
@engineer,
The government is not allowed to search without a warrant on any individual, but what proof do you have they have intercepted private communication without one
?
0 Replies
 
RABEL222
 
  2  
Sun 1 Mar, 2015 09:49 pm
@Olivier5,
Evidently thats how a majority of voters want it even democrats. And dont ask me why a majority of democrats want the rich to **** them blind because I sure as hell cant.
cicerone imposter
 
  2  
Mon 2 Mar, 2015 12:06 am
@RABEL222,
That's one of the mysteries of our times; I doubt it'll ever be solved by any of us munchkins. Politics in the US has proven anything is possible. Attempting to rationalize anything political will land you in the pokey or looney house.
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  2  
Tue 3 Mar, 2015 01:41 pm
Quote:
(Reuters) - A Russian lawyer for Edward Snowden said on Tuesday the fugitive former U.S. spy agency contractor who leaked details of the government's mass surveillance programs was working with American and German lawyers to return home.

Anatoly Kucherena, who has links to the Kremlin, was speaking at a news conference to present a book he has written about his client. Moscow granted Snowden asylum in 2013, straining already tense ties with Washington.

"I won't keep it secret that he... wants to return back home. And we are doing everything possible now to solve this issue. There is a group of U.S. lawyers, there is also a group of German lawyers and I'm dealing with it on the Russian side."

The United States wants Snowden to stand trial for leaking extensive secrets of electronic surveillance programs by the National Security Agency (NSA). Russia has repeatedly refused to extradite him.

Snowden has said in the past he would like to return home if he was assured he would be given a fair trial.
Source
Frank Apisa
 
  2  
Tue 3 Mar, 2015 01:51 pm
@Walter Hinteler,
Quote:
Snowden has said in the past he would like to return home if he was assured he would be given a fair trial.


I'm all for giving him a fair trial.
izzythepush
 
  2  
Tue 3 Mar, 2015 01:54 pm
@Frank Apisa,
Frank Apisa wrote:

I'm all for giving him a fair trial.


You're the only one who seems to think a fair trial is a possibility.
0 Replies
 
BillRM
 
  1  
Tue 3 Mar, 2015 08:20 pm
Strongly suggest getting ahold of a copy of citizenfour a documentary on Snowden and covering how and why he released his information including video of his first meetings with the reporters in a Hong Kong hotel room,
0 Replies
 
RABEL222
 
  2  
Tue 3 Mar, 2015 11:06 pm
I wonder, does the fact that he disclosed secret information after signing a pledge not to, count for anything?
 

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