Snowdon is a dummy

@Moment-in-Time,

Just out of curiosity, MiT: what did you dislike with my posted and quoted English report from a German source a few post above your Bloomberg report?

1 Reply

@Frank Apisa,

Frank Apisa wrote:

Anyway, I seriously doubt Snowden will ever go to Germany...and I think the Merkel take on not inviting him will prevail.

Well, it's seems that it'snow the Federal Constitutional Court to finally decide, not Merkel.
And if the inquiry committee invites him - Merkel can do what she wants, but she's fortunately not above the law.

1 Reply

@Walter Hinteler,

Walter Hinteler wrote:

Frank Apisa wrote:
Anyway, I seriously doubt Snowden will ever go to Germany...and I think the Merkel take on not inviting him will prevail.

Well, it's seems that it'snow the Federal Constitutional Court to finally decide, not Merkel. And she's not above the law, too.

Yes, Walter...and I still think that the Merkel take on not inviting him will prevail.

I did not say she was above the law...just that I think her take (not to let Snowden come to Germany) will prevail.

If the court rules the other way...I will be surprised.

I wonder, will the court also rule that if Snowden is allowed to come to Germany...he must be granted safe conduct back into Russia...or to some other destination of his choice?

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@Frank Apisa,

She can't give orders: if the committee invites him, it doesn't matter if she says 'yes' or 'no'.
It's just that coalition party members follow her "advice". Until now.

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@Frank Apisa,

Giving Snowden asylum when he comes to your country is one thing, I guess, but to grant security from the US authorities to travel to Germany and I assume grant him security while in his country and possibly go somewhere else, just seems like a lot to do for little gain. I mean what else can he say that hasn't been revealed which would concern Germany? What is he testifying in regards to? Does the committee have the power to use government resources to provide protection, what would that entail anyway?

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@Frank Apisa,

Frank Apisa wrote:

I wonder, will the court also rule that if Snowden is allowed to come to Germany...he must be granted safe conduct back into Russia...or to some other destination of his choice?

It's not a constitutional question, I think. That should go the normal way (if a court decision would be necessary, that is) at administration courts - perhaps up to the Federal Administrative Court (Bundesverwaltungsgericht). Additionally, it could be a constitutional case .... depends on many facts which could happen.

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@Walter Hinteler,

Quote:

Just out of curiosity, MiT: what did you dislike with my posted and quoted English report from a German source a few post above your Bloomberg report?

I did not read your English version, Walter. I only read a truncated or a few lines which you translated into English. I don't read every post in the thread as I'm in and out and sometimes gone for days. I read Revelette's post this morning and went googling. No personal slight on you, I can assure you.

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@Frank Apisa,

Quote:

I wonder, will the court also rule that if Snowden is allowed to come to Germany...he must be granted safe conduct back into Russia...or to some other destination of his choice?

Your question is an intriguing one, Frank Apisa. One can almost conclude if Snowden is allowed into Germany under safe conduct, that returning to Russia he would retain the same *safe conduct.* The most provocative aspect of your compounded question is whether he would be allowed to go to another country as opposed to returning to Russia. Conventional wisdom tells us it's doubtful as most countries don't want to touch Snowden for fear of damaging US relations, and yet there might be the one or two countries unafraid of the US and willing to take a chance on Snowden. I, too, wonder.

1 Reply

@Moment-in-Time,

I am wondering if Germany has to get permission from the Russian government to invite Snowden to speak. Or is this up to Snowden to go without alerting the Russian government of his departure to Germany. Walter Hinteler, you might be able to answer this. Thanks.

1 Reply

@Moment-in-Time,

Okay. It was just, because rev responded to my quoted and linked report and your response was only two or three posts later.

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@Moment-in-Time,

Moment-in-Time wrote:

I am wondering if Germany has to get permission from the Russian government to invite Snowden to speak. Or is this up to Snowden to go without alerting the Russian government of his departure to Germany. Walter Hinteler, you might be able to answer this. Thanks.

If he will be invited, it would be done by that said committee.
Russia has nothing to do with it - they can invide whom they want. If those invited follow or can follow the invitation is different kettle of fish.

(I don't think anyone on asylum can move totally freely in the country which granted asylum.)

1 Reply

Has Russia anything to add to this question of Snowden going to Germany to participate in an investigation into the Snowden revelations? I mean, is he free to go? I don't know how these asylum things work.

I think the main part I find curious, is how the investigating committee is realistically going to be able to provide security to Snowden without the government of Germany granting Snowden asylum.

1 Reply

@revelette2,

revelette2 wrote:

I think the main part I find curious, is how the investigating committee is realistically going to be able to provide security to Snowden without the government of Germany granting Snowden asylum.

That's not their duty. But that's the problem for the government which somehow would have to arrange it. And therefore (besides the already mentioned other reason [relation USA <> Germany]) the coalition doesn't support this idea.

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@Walter Hinteler,

Quote:

If he will be invited, it would be done by that said committee.
Russia has nothing to do with it - they can invide whom they want. If those invited follow or can follow the invitation is different kettle of fish.

(I don't think anyone on asylum can move totally freely in the country which granted asylum.)

Since Snowden is given asylum by Russia will he have to get Russia's permission to leave the country or put another way, do you think Russia will allow Snowden to go to Germany to give an interview?

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@Walter Hinteler,

From our constitution ("Basic Law", Grundgesetz)

Quote:

Article 44
[Committees of inquiry]

(1) The Bundestag shall have the right, and on the motion of one quarter of its Members the duty, to establish a committee of inquiry, which shall take the requisite evidence at public hearings. The public may be excluded.

(2) The rules of criminal procedure shall apply mutatis mutandis to the taking of evidence. The privacy of correspondence, posts and telecommunications shall not be affected.

(3) Courts and administrative authorities shall be required to provide legal and administrative assistance.

(4) The decisions of committees of inquiry shall not be subject to judicial review. The courts shall be free to evaluate and rule upon the facts that were the subject of the investigation.

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@Moment-in-Time,

Moment-in-Time wrote:

Since Snowden is given asylum by Russia will he have to get Russia's permission to leave the country?

I don't know the Russian laws about it (and actually, all the Russian asylum are rather new). But generally and elsewhere, it is a rather difficult administrative action.

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@Moment-in-Time,

Here is an interesting article which is pertinent to the conversation. It seems Snowden is not technically an asylum case but has been given a "three-year residential permit" and he is allowed to travel abroad for "three-month stints."
______

"Edward Snowden, the National Security Agency whistleblower, has been given permission to stay in Russia for three more years and will be allowed to travel abroad for three-month stints. His Russian lawyer told reporters that Snowden, whose temporary asylum ran out on 1 August, has received a three-year residence permit.

"The decision on the application has been taken and therefore, starting 1 August 2014, Edward Snowden has received a three-year residential permit," said Anatoly Kucherena.

"But the former NSA contractor has not been granted political asylum, which would have allowed him to stay in Russia permanently. However, Kucherena said Snowden would be able to extend his residency permit for a further three years when it runs out and after five years would be eligible to apply for Russian citizenship. He did not know if Snowden intended to do so.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/aug/07/edward-snowden-permission-stay-in-russia-three-years

1 Reply

@Moment-in-Time,

Forgot about that Embarrassed

Thanks for posting that report!

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@Walter Hinteler,

Me too, I had forgotten I had read this in the Guardian. Have a very good weekend. I'm now getting ready to attend a wedding reception.

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@Walter Hinteler,

I don't really blame them, it seems complicated for little return, but then I guess I would say that. Wink

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Snowdon is a dummy

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